Is this why McPhail is delaying on Bedard?

[wildcard]

Hank Steinbrenner is pondering "doing the Santana deal". That could mean upping the Yankees offer in terms of players. Maybe adding Kennedy to Hughes and Cabrera? (speculation by me)

A higher price for Santana could set a higher return for Bedard.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/04/the-latest-from-chairman-hank/

[orangedive]

If that deal would go down, I'd be very happy.

1. It might accelerate the Bedard process, but

2. It would get Melky, Hughes, and Kennedy out of NY

In 3 years or so when we're able to compete, I'd rather them have an aging Santana than three young studs.

[33rdst]

Hank Steinbrenner is pondering "doing the Santana deal". That could mean upping the Yankees offer in terms of players. Maybe adding Kennedy to Hughes and Cabrera? (speculation by me)

A higher price for Santana could set a higher return for Bedard.

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/04/the-latest-from-chairman-hank/

This is a situtation worth watching. "Young Boss" looks like he is establishing Angelos north. If this keeps up, Cashmen could be on his way out.

[FutureOwner]

If that deal would go down, I'd be very happy.

1. It might accelerate the Bedard process, but

2. It would get Melky, Hughes, and Kennedy out of NY

In 3 years or so when we're able to compete, I'd rather them have an aging Santana than three young studs.

"Aging Santana"

Dude, theyll have Santana in his prime and replace the others with whoever the best available FA is. They stand to clear a great deal of payroll over the next couple of years.

[Sports Guy]

They are delaying on Bedard because AM wants to much...It is that simple.

[Sports Guy]

i]Give Huff what he is asking for, he'll never come down to our offer (last offseason about now)

This was always based off of reported offers to him...Those reports were false.

Trade Trachsel for a 2nd tier prospect

Yea, who would have known the Cubs would be this stupid...No chance you thought we would get that package back for Trax.

We waited too long on Tejada; we should have traded him for Santana/Aybar when could have done it; we'll never get value for him now[/i]

Aybar/Santana had more value than the package we got(or at least as much value)...Easy to look at it in hindsight and even in hindsight, it is way to early.

These are five panic scenarios from just the past 365 days that turned out to be completely false. In all cases, the advocates of these positions would have paid more, gotten less, or done worse than what ended up happening. I think we've got a 6th panic scenario brewing right now that will blow these others out of the water. Some of us are reacting to a Seattle times story today that was already posted on here two previous times AND contains information that was blatantly from prior to XMas. Good stuff

It is more of a reaction based on the offer BB is hinting at saying is on the board.

[Sports Guy]

You're right. Thanks for supporting my post about how people make proclamations of "fact" criticizing things based on conjecture and newspaper filler that may or may not be true. There were multiple people arguing that we should give him several million more than he finally got because of these reports. These people were criticizing w/o full information and obviously would have overpaid if they were in this situation. So, maybe these people should learn to wait, watch, and listen rather than shoot off their mouth in hopes they don't look like fools yet again.

This is a discussion...People are going to discuss what is going on and what is said. We speculate all the time on here but ultimately, we can either discuss what is happening ot sit there with our thumbs up our asses and give this pathetic organization the benefit of the doubt..You choose whichever you want but to criticize others for discussing what is actualyl said and what is going on is absurd but typical.

You're missing the point. Of course I didn't know what we could get for Trachsel. Of course I think the Cubs were stupid. However, I wasn't the guy on here blasting the FO for signing him and holding on to him. I decided to wait and see what happened rather than jump the gun and overreact. What happened was that the FO pulled off a major coup in that trade.

Good for you!

Please tell me you don't believe this statement. There is absolutely no way that Aybar/Santana has nearly the value of what we got in return for Tejada. If you want I'll prove it with analysis (again), but I don't think you want to go there.

AT THE TIME OF THAT DEAl, the package of Aybar/Santana was very similar to what we ended up getting.

This is no offense to BB, because I would have a hard time being impartial right now too if I was in his situation, but it is pretty clear he isn't and hasn't been a fan of MacPhail from the start. His analysis just doesn't appear to be impartial at the moment.

So you think BB is making up that package? You think he is lying? Essentially, that is what you are saying.

[Guest rochester]

i]Give Huff what he is asking for, he'll never come down to our offer (last offseason about now)

This was always based off of reported offers to him...Those reports were false.

Trade Trachsel for a 2nd tier prospect

Yea, who would have known the Cubs would be this stupid...No chance you thought we would get that package back for Trax.

We waited too long on Tejada; we should have traded him for Santana/Aybar when could have done it; we'll never get value for him now[/i]

Aybar/Santana had more value than the package we got(or at least as much value)...Easy to look at it in hindsight and even in hindsight, it is way to early.

These are five panic scenarios from just the past 365 days that turned out to be completely false. In all cases, the advocates of these positions would have paid more, gotten less, or done worse than what ended up happening. I think we've got a 6th panic scenario brewing right now that will blow these others out of the water. Some of us are reacting to a Seattle times story today that was already posted on here two previous times AND contains information that was blatantly from prior to XMas. Good stuff

It is more of a reaction based on the offer BB is hinting at saying is on the board.

I completely agree with VATech.

1) Huff - reported, reported, reported...what makes OH great is the debate based on reports....as long as they are hypothetical based on reports.

2) Trax - Verifies the above - if the consensus on OH was that Trax was worth a 2nd tier prospect then it shows how unpredictable it can be. I am not sure that the Cubs were THAT stupid. I mean, the package was fine but don't see anything earth shattering...I mean, if they gave up someone like Pie for Trax then one could assume it was stupid but...

3) Tejada - IMO, I agree that we waited too long, not necessarily because of his production (or lack thereof/fielding) but his attitude. How it plays out is to be seen but thought these discussions had/have merit - not necessarily panic. My own personal issue about this is the fact that I am tired of seeing Aybar/Santana everywhere on OH - I was waiting to hear how they did in Iowa the other night - fatigue (not saying that is even close to being right)

4) Reaction to BB - I am always a big advocate of BB's - always enjoyed his information and insight...but sometimes we all panic when a "fwiw" is posted. I respectfully disagree with the 6 weeks until P&Cs report thread that created panic as if nothing is happening nor is going to. But instead of going off on AM because I believe that it does not make sense, I kinda took it as BB having a bad day...being a bit cranky and anxious (as we all are). The Fio thing was similar.

But then again...I could be wrong..

[Guest rochester]

This is no offense to BB, because I would have a hard time being impartial right now too if I was in his situation, but it is pretty clear he isn't and hasn't been a fan of MacPhail from the start. His analysis just doesn't appear to be impartial at the moment.

So you think BB is making up that package? You think he is lying? Essentially, that is what you are saying.

SG - you are better than that... just posted something similar but a different take. However, let's be honest, it has been readily apparent from the beginning that BB has not always given AM a fair shot. Saying that, this was not entirely inconsistent with past FO's. I can not speak for VaTech but I do not believe nor accuse someone with integrity of lying.

[Sports Guy]

SG - you are better than that... just posted something similar but a different take. However, let's be honest, it has been readily apparent from the beginning that BB has not always given AM a fair shot. Saying that, this was not entirely inconsistent with past FO's. I can not speak for VaTech but I do not believe nor accuse someone with integrity of lying.

That may be true about BB but unless he is just speculating or throwing a package out there for discussion, he isn't making up the offer with intent to bash AM.

[33rdst]

No, that isn't what I'm saying. BB's source, by his own admission, is not nearly as in the loop as he used to be. His source is also looking at losing his job soon. It would be easy to imagine a situation where his source is now connecting dots a lot more than he used to have to and that his bent while connecting those dots is negative. Now, I don't know if that is true at all. It is interesting that the info coming from Peace, Belkast, Dynamite, and Sonny76 hasn't really matched the info coming from BB's source lately (different subject matters is what I mean). Most of the stuff from BB's source has been very peripheral stuff lately. It appeared BB's source didn't know a lot about the Tejada trade based on the posts from that time period (though there could be another explanation).

BB doesn't have to get more specific if he doesn't want to (and I'll never pester him), but his statement about this deal was very cryptic IMO so I'm not taking it at face value until I see more info from another source or clarification. Again, I would be upset too if I was BB and my source for info was being boxed out of the game so I don't want this to appear like I'm negative on BB. I have really appreciated all the info he has posted over the years and what has happened sucks for him and his source.

What!?!? And you accuse others of too much speculation. Give me a break.

[markpolis]

You're right. Thanks for supporting my post about how people make proclamations of "fact" criticizing things based on conjecture and newspaper filler that may or may not be true. There were multiple people arguing that we should give him several million more than he finally got because of these reports. These people were criticizing w/o full information and obviously would have overpaid if they were in this situation. So, maybe these people should learn to wait, watch, and listen rather than shoot off their mouth in hopes they don't look like fools yet again.

You're missing the point. Of course I didn't know what we could get for Trachsel. Of course I think the Cubs were stupid. However, I wasn't the guy on here blasting the FO for signing him and holding on to him. I decided to wait and see what happened rather than jump the gun and overreact. What happened was that the FO pulled off a major coup in that trade.

Please tell me you don't believe this statement. There is absolutely no way that Aybar/Santana has nearly the value of what we got in return for Tejada. If you want I'll prove it with analysis (again), but I don't think you want to go there.

And again, you're proving my point with your "it is too early to tell" stuff. It wasn't too early to criticize them repeatedly for not making that deal at the time. Now, 18 months later, everyone is thankful we didn't make that deal for a pitcher who got demoted to the minors last year and a former "prospect" who would no longer rank anywhere near the top 100 if he was still eligible. Heck, he posted an OPS that was positively Luis Hernandezesque in over 200 plate appearances with the Angels last year (568).

This is no offense to BB, because I would have a hard time being impartial right now too if I was in his situation, but it is pretty clear he isn't and hasn't been a fan of MacPhail from the start. His analysis just doesn't appear to be impartial at the moment.

No offense to SG or BB, but Vatech has just hit back to back to back home runs with these assessments/statements. IMO, excellent posts.

[wesamos]

I don't get how people can still be HOMERS. Ten years of loosing and terrible decision making has wiped away all my faith in this team. I don't care that we have a new gm. Big daddy Pete is still the owner. Maybe AM will get some good deals done by the start of the season.... We will not know until then.

However I refuse to believe a nice return for Bedard and Roberts can not be had right now. And if we go into the season with Bedard and Roberts on this team it is a BIG mistake. Too many negative things could happen leaving Andy with his pants down. Not getting deals done now will limit value and probably set us back another few years.

I'm still trying to hold out hope but I'm not expecting anything to happen nor would I be surprised if we were left with our pants down.

[Guest rochester]

I don't get how people can still be HOMERS. Ten years of loosing and terrible decision making has wiped away all my faith in this team. I don't care that we have a new gm. Big daddy Pete is still the owner. Maybe AM will get some good deals done by the start of the season.... We will not know until then.

However I refuse to believe a nice return for Bedard and Roberts can not be had right now. And if we go into the season with Bedard and Roberts on this team it is a BIG mistake. Too many negative things could happen leaving Andy with his pants down. Not getting deals done now will limit value and probably set us back another few years.

I'm still trying to hold out hope but I'm not expecting anything to happen nor would I be surprised if we were left with our pants down.

Wow - now I'm depressed....

Try being a fan of the Buffalo Bills (I am and still a homer - after the 2nd SuperBowl I could no longer answer my phone after the game...and for days afterward - just too painful), Chicago Cubs (not really but have to needle Davearm a bit:D - who I hope is still a Cubs homer).

[olehippi]

I don't get how people can still be HOMERS. Ten years of loosing and terrible decision making has wiped away all my faith in this team. I don't care that we have a new gm. Big daddy Pete is still the owner. Maybe AM will get some good deals done by the start of the season.... We will not know until then.

However I refuse to believe a nice return for Bedard and Roberts can not be had right now. And if we go into the season with Bedard and Roberts on this team it is a BIG mistake. Too many negative things could happen leaving Andy with his pants down. Not getting deals done now will limit value and probably set us back another few years.

I'm still trying to hold out hope but I'm not expecting anything to happen nor would I be surprised if we were left with our pants down.

What too many people don't seem to comprehend is that Bedard and Roberts are our ONLY real trading chips. It is imperative that MacPhail gets the "best" deal for them, not just a "nice" one, like what he got for Tejada. Thankfully, he appears to realize this.