Cliff Lee could take us to the WS

[El Gordo]

The improvement we would get from replacing Tillman with Lee isn't going to fix the rest of the rotation. We need to replace someone that's struggling, not one that is succeeding.

The rest of the rotation is fine. Hammel will not be as bad as he was today nor as good as he was last year. Gonzo is solid and so is Chen. Between Gausman, Garcia ,Britton, Arrieta, Wada, and Johnson, we can cover #5.

[Jonesy10]

Woah-that will not be necessary for Lee. That might get Lee right now though:)

Tillman isn't going anywhere.

I could see a Britton or Jake and Urrietta and maybe plus 1 and yes of course I would do it. Everyone on this board knows we need at TOR to get anywhere. Look at the Tigers. Look at the top teams and their staffs. We are playing way above our heads. One injury to a bat and we are no longer scoring 10 runs a game.

This team may not make the playoffs, let alone go anywhere without some huge starting pitching help. As most of us know, this should have been addressed last offseason.

We aren't playing way above our heads though. We have a top notch offense and lower end pitching (even though I do think they're under performing). They are in no way playing over their heads.

[wildcard]

Hey, we are talking about the Baltimore Orioles. Peter Angelos, Dan Duquette. There is not way they pay 70M for a 34 year pitcher. Its just not happening. This thread is barking up the wrong tree.

Find a veteran pitcher in the last two months of his contract and the O's might go for that come July 31st.

[LookitsPuck]

Hey, we are talking about the Baltimore Orioles. Peter Angelos, Dan Duquette. There is not way they pay 70M for a 34 year pitcher. Its just not happening. This tread is barking up the wrong tree.

Find a veteran pitcher in the last two months of their contract and the O's might go for that come July 31st.

Yup, realistically I can't see us going after Lee, unfortunately.

However, I think guys like Nolasco, Garza, and Slowey are options.

[SeaBird]

I'm in the minority (I think Drungo chastised me for it in a thread a month ago or so), but I'm on board with trading a potential future star for a legit shot at the WS.

I agree with you. I'm tired of the Orioles over-valuing their prospects and declaring everyone as untouchable. They can't go shopping for a TOR guy and only offer a bag of balls. Take a chance, roll the dice and go for it. Carpe diem.

[Can_of_corn]

Good thread. Lot's of good points.

1. Tillman is a mid rotation starter

2. Lee is an Ace

3. Phils won't make a deal like this until they are out of it.

4. The Phils aren't out of it.

5. It (trading Tillman) upgrades the rotation but still leaves a hole in it

6. Probably would take Gausman to make the deal

7. The O's won't trade Gausman

8. It will take more than taking on the contract because it's a decent contract

9. Other teams would have interest in Lee and be willing to give up value

10. We have seen no indications that ownership would be willing to assume a contract as substantial as Lee's.

[webbrick2010]

Right, I mentioned a Felix Hernandez as the type of talent that you deal Gausman/Bundy for, but you do not do that for Lee. I just do not know many teams that are in a hurry to deal a true TOR starter.

Really?? Do I have to remind everyone that the O's have not drafted and develope a credible ML starter since Mike Mussina in 1992. They have not drafted and developed a high school pitcher into a ML starter since (I'm guessing on this one) Jim Palmer.

Trade Bundy for Lee and ask the Phils to chip in 5 - 7.5 million a year for the remainder of Lee's contract.

No reason to believe that Bundy will break the O's string of 30 years of ineptitude at developing pitching

Lee would give the O's a chance this year and perhaps the next couple.

[Can_of_corn]

Really?? Do I have to remind everyone that the O's have not drafted and develope a credible ML starter since Mike Mussina in 1992. They have not drafted and developed a high school pitcher into a ML starter since (I'm guessing on this one) Jim Palmer.

Trade Bundy for Lee and ask the Phils to chip in 5 - 7.5 million a year for the remainder of Lee's contract.

No reason to believe that Bundy will break the O's string of 30 years of ineptitude at developing pitching

Lee would give the O's a chance this year and perhaps the next couple.

Of course management, coaches, ownership and even the home stadium has changed since Jim Palmer but don't let that get in the way of your point.

After all if one group of coaches fail to develop pitchers for a franchise that means all subsequent coaches will also fail. It's a vicious cycle.

[crowmst3k!]

I could substitute Lee with someone like James Shields, and be equally satisfied. Shields for the rotation and Bruce Chen for left handed relief. What would that take?

Sent from my SPH-M950 using Tapatalk 2

[weams]

Really?? Do I have to remind everyone that the O's have not drafted and develope a credible ML starter since Mike Mussina in 1992. They have not drafted and developed a high school pitcher into a ML starter since (I'm guessing on this one) Jim Palmer.

No, it's ok if you don't. And please pardon me if I think that Dan Duquette is more skilled at this stuff than you are.

[weams]

Matt Cain gave up seven earned runs yesterday. And he was not facing the Tigers or the Blue Jays.

[weams]

And? .................

I was just thinking. Aces are not immune to what we saw from Tillman and Hammel.

[cb3fsu]

Really?? Do I have to remind everyone that the O's have not drafted and develope a credible ML starter since Mike Mussina in 1992. They have not drafted and developed a high school pitcher into a ML starter since (I'm guessing on this one) Jim Palmer.

Trade Bundy for Lee and ask the Phils to chip in 5 - 7.5 million a year for the remainder of Lee's contract.

No reason to believe that Bundy will break the O's string of 30 years of ineptitude at developing pitching

Lee would give the O's a chance this year and perhaps the next couple.

Before Manny they had not drafted and developed a position player of his caliber since Ripken.

Before Chris Davis and Mclouth it had been ages since a reclamation project worked out.

How much of that contract do you think Philly is going to eat? $10M per year? I seriously doubt it.

Lee is at the stage of his career where his salary dwarfs his value, when the team he's helped is happy to be rid of him.

The Orioles do not have any contracts like that on their roster, and they have a number of guys who are about to get paid during the time frame Lee's contract.

Unless there is a commitment from Angelos to raise the payroll into the $125M range adding a player like this is just about the worst thing this franchise could do.

[Can_of_corn]

Before Manny they had not drafted and developed a position player of his caliber since Ripken.

Before Chris Davis and Mclouth it had been ages since a reclamation project worked out.

How much of that contract do you think Philly is going to eat? $10M per year? I seriously doubt it.

Lee is at the stage of his career where his salary dwarfs his value, when the team he's helped is happy to be rid of him.

The Orioles do not have any contracts like that on their roster, and they have a number of guys who are about to get paid during the time frame Lee's contract.

Unless there is a commitment from Angelos to raise the payroll into the $125M range adding a player like this is just about the worst thing this franchise could do.

Once again this is simply not true. If you compare him to his peers his contract isn't bad.

[Three Run Homer]

Once again this is simply not true. If you compare him to his peers his contract isn't bad.

Lee's contract might have been fair when it was signed in 2011, but long term contracts given to elite players in their 30s on average imply that the player is underpaid in the early years, but overpaid in the later years, given that most players' performance declines in their late 30s. The O's would be taking over the last half of Lee's contract, which almost surely means that they'd be overpaying him in the later years.