Clemens' 60 Minutes interview

[tennOsfan]

So let me get this straight:

1. Clemens hires this guy to be his trainer.

2. The trainer says he injected Clemens with HGH, etc.

3. Clemens says the trainer is a liar, that he's saying this to stay out of jail.

4. Mike Wallace asks, "To stay out of jail for doing what?" Clemens answers, for distributing steroids, etc.

5. Then why did Clemens hire a trainer who distributes steroids? Why take the risk of ruining your reputation by dealing with the guy? Surely Clemens doesn't think we're all so naive that he wasn't made aware of the trainer's PED activities.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't like Clemens.

I want to believe Clemens.

Don't get that twisted. I think Clemens is lying.

It just adds up too much. Clemens' guy injected Pettite, Pettite later on admitted it. Clemens and Pettite are pretty close, I don't believe that Pettite would have kept that secret. Ballplayers spend more time together than the do with their own families.

During the interview Clemens kept saying that steroids are a "quick fix" and if that he used them, why hadn't his body broken down?

The answer is simple...Clemens didn't use them all out, all the time. He used them in spurts for a "quick fix" much like Pettite did.

Again, I want to believe Clemens, I hope he's innocent. The game doesn't need another black mark, Barry Bonds is bad enough.

IMO, I think he's lying. He looked nervous in that interview, fidgeting, sipping his water.

Oh well. Another one bites the dust.

[beaner]

I don't like Clemens.

I want to believe Clemens.

Don't get that twisted. I think Clemens is lying.

It just adds up too much. Clemens' guy injected Pettite, Pettite later on admitted it. Clemens and Pettite are pretty close, I don't believe that Pettite would have kept that secret. Ballplayers spend more time together than the do with their own families.

During the interview Clemens kept saying that steroids are a "quick fix" and if that he used them, why hadn't his body broken down?

The answer is simple...Clemens didn't use them all out, all the time. He used them in spurts for a "quick fix" much like Pettite did.

Again, I want to believe Clemens, I hope he's innocent. The game doesn't need another black mark, Barry Bonds is bad enough.

IMO, I think he's lying. He looked nervous in that interview, fidgeting, sipping his water.

Oh well. Another one bites the dust.

Of course it always comes back to blaming Bonds. Come on Moose, I love ya man, but if the Mitchell report proved anything, it was that this is miles and miles past a Barry Bonds problem. He was one of hundreds, no more, no less, just one name.

I totally agree with you on Clemens, he's a terrific pitcher, but a terrible liar. I'm just so sick of all of these guys saying "It was B-12", "I Did it once", 'I did for rehab"..Give me a break.

[NewMarketSean]

I saw this too. I agree with the quick fix thing. I'm guessing Bonds is a hard-worker like Clemens, but if steroids are a quick fix, and it's safe to assume these guys were doing them, then how else can you explain the high level of performance well into their 40's? I mean Bonds had career years at the ages when most players are hitting their weight and clinging to a dream of one more year. Clemens still goes out there and K's a lot of hitters and maintains a low ERA. That ain't no quick fix... that's a long fix... extending careers.

I want to believe Clemens too, because if hes telling the truth it discredits the Mitchell report which I already believe to be biased. But I have a hard time believing that Clemens is telling the truth when Pettitte came out and said that he did steroids with the same trainer.

It simply doesn't add up. And it wouldn't hold up in court, either IMO.

Also sick of the anger in Clemens toward the fans and the country in general. Sorry dude, but you're in a profession where a MAJORITY of the people were doing something illegal for god knows how long, and when you're named in the report, and also happen to be pitching as good as you were when you were 28, sorry if I am not going to give you the BOTD.

[Migrant Redbird]

It was a "softball" interview by Mike Wallace. I didn't see his interview of Canseco, but it appeared from the transcript that he went after Jose much harder than he did his friend, Roger.

There were so many obvious follow-up questions that Wallace ignored. He quoted from the Mitchell interview why they believed McNamee, that he had immunity under the federal investigation and was instructed that any lie would cause him to lose that immunity. Then, after reciting what McNamee said in the report, asked Clemens why McNamee would turn on him and lie. Roger's explanation: To keep from going to jail. The situation was crying out for Wallace to point out that lying about Clemens would make it much more likely, not less, that McNamee would go to jail, but Wallace let it go by without any challenge whatsoever. He wasn't that kind with Canseco.

Again and again, Clemens tried to capitalize with weak points that Wallace allowed to go by.

Why did Clemens only get injections from McNamee during a couple of seasons; if it was doing him so much good, why didn't he continue? Well, my assumption is that Clements did continue and that he either got across his reluctance to inject himself or he found someone more trustworthy than McNamee to do it for him. Maybe Clemens began filling the syringes with steroids himself in private and added B12 to the mix in view of the person administering the injection to provide himself deniability? That McNamee was no longer injecting Clemens does not necessarily mean that Clemens stopped getting injections.

A couple of times, Clemens asked why his tendons hadn't "turned to dust"? Well, why didn't those of Caminiti or Bonds? Caminiti admitted that he didn't know anything about steroids when he began using and blames -- without evidence -- steroids for the injuries late in his career, but a lot of ball players have more injuries as they get older. Not everyone's body behaves the same way towards training, age, and the effects of certain medications. I've used prednisone enough for my asthma to know that it doesn't work as efficiently on me every time either. It has always worked -- so far -- but sometimes it takes longer than others.

Well, Roger did say "swear". He'll get his chance in a few days. After the criticism the congressional committee took for allowing McGwire to "take the fifth" without technically invoking the fifth amendment, perhaps they'll push Clemens a little harder. Then Roger will get his chance: to 'fess up or to render himself liable to federal perjury charges that could put him in jail for a year or two.

Yes, other pitchers have pitched very successfully into their forties before Clemens. However, if you look at the top 100 list for ERA+ for a season, the only players on there who are in their forties are Cy Young at age 41 (in a 3-way tie for 44th) and Clemens at age 42 in 13th place, ahead of the 34-year-old Clemens in 16th place and the 27-year-old Clemens at age 27. There are a sprinkling of pitchers in their late thirties: Randy Johnson tied for 37th at age 38; Dazzy Vance tied for 58th at age 39; Lefty Grove at age 36 and Randy Johnson at age 39 tied for 63rd; Lefty Grove again at age 39 tied with himself at age 30 for 76th; Randy Johnson at 36 tied for 88th; and that's basically it.

Only Clemens and Cy Young managed the feat after reaching forty, and Cy Young did it way back in 1908! Yes, Nolan Ryan pitched until he was 46 and he was a "plus" pitcher (ERA+ over 100) into his forties, but his best ERA+ was when he was 34 years old.

Warren Spahn pitched until he was 44, but he's famous for adapting and pitching with guile instead of relying upon his stuff the way he did when he was younger. And Spahnie didn't put up the best ERA of his career after age 40, either. He twice tied his 5th best ERA+ and he placed second in the balloting for the Cy Young at ages 39 and 40, but he didn't roll back the years and throw like he did at the peak of his career.

Sorry, Roger, but methinks thou doth protest too much. Save it for the sworn testimony before congress.

[Moose Milligan]

Of course it always comes back to blaming Bonds. Come on Moose, I love ya man, but if the Mitchell report proved anything, it was that this is miles and miles past a Barry Bonds problem. He was one of hundreds, no more, no less, just one name.

I totally agree with you on Clemens, he's a terrific pitcher, but a terrible liar. I'm just so sick of all of these guys saying "It was B-12", "I Did it once", 'I did for rehab"..Give me a break.

Who's blaming Barry Bonds for anything? Are you honestly going to deny that he's not a black mark on the face of the game?

While the names in the Mitchell report are pretty much forgotten already, Clemens is the one that easily stood out above all the rest.

Baseball doesn't need an another all time great being linked to this. It's not good for the game.

Better?

[beaner]

Who's blaming Barry Bonds for anything? Are you honestly going to deny that he's not a black mark on the face of the game?

While the names in the Mitchell report are pretty much forgotten already, Clemens is the one that easily stood out above all the rest.

Baseball doesn't need an another all time great being linked to this. It's not good for the game.

Better? [/QUOTE]

Much better.

Of course I agree with you in principle, that the bigger names are the ones that will be linked to the "Steroid Era" forever. Granted Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are more memorable than Adam Piatt and Larry Bigbie.

[Night Owl]

It will be very interesting to see how Clemens squirms out of appearing before Congress. I think he has been backed into a wall. If he fails to appear I think he loses all credibility. There is no way that he couldn't have known about Andy Pettite's use of HGH. These two guys are supposed to be best friends.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Who's blaming Barry Bonds for anything? Are you honestly going to deny that he's not a black mark on the face of the game?

While the names in the Mitchell report are pretty much forgotten already, Clemens is the one that easily stood out above all the rest.

Baseball doesn't need an another all time great being linked to this. It's not good for the game.

Better? [/QUOTE]

Much better.

Of course I agree with you in principle, that the bigger names are the ones that will be linked to the "Steroid Era" forever. Granted Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are more memorable than Adam Piatt and Larry Bigbie.

Well, who is remembered most for the Black Sox? Swede Risberg and Chick Gandil (who ran most of thing)? Happy Felsch and Fred McMullin? Or, Eddie Cicotte and Joe Jackson, the possible Hall-of-Famers?

[Moose Milligan]

Well, who is remembered most for the Black Sox? Swede Risberg and Chick Gandil (who ran most of thing)? Happy Felsch and Fred McMullin? Or, Eddie Cicotte and Joe Jackson, the possible Hall-of-Famers?

Obviously Cicotte and Jackson are...

...so what's your point?

[blueberryale77]

I didn't see the interview, but there is one thing I'm curious about so maybe someone can fill me in. McNamee specifically refers to injecting Clemens "in the buttocks" with steroids and instructing him on how to inject HGH through a "belly button shot." Clemens claims McNamee injected him with B-12 and lidocaine. Now perhaps B-12 shots (the real ones, not "B-12" shots) are supposed to, or can, go in your ass, but lidocaine? Clemens says the lidocaine was for his joints, but it's a local anesthetic. The only reason I can see to inject lidocaine into one's butt would be because of butt pain (so if Steve Trachsel claimed to have taken lidocaine shots in the butt last year while he was on the DL with a strained glute, that I might believe). Anyway, in the interview, did Clemens address where he had the lidocaine injected into him? It seems to me that McNamee was quite specific about the location of the injections and Clemens' answer conveniently overlooks that detail.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Obviously Cicotte and Jackson are...

...so what's your point?

That Beaner was pointing out the obvious that Clemens/Bonds were goign to be the names remembered in all this over the nobodies.

[Guest BaltiJo]

It was a "softball" interview by Mike Wallace. I didn't see his interview of Canseco, but it appeared from the transcript that he went after Jose much harder than he did his friend, Roger.

There were so many obvious follow-up questions that Wallace ignored. He quoted from the Mitchell interview why they believed McNamee, that he had immunity under the federal investigation and was instructed that any lie would cause him to lose that immunity. Then, after reciting what McNamee said in the report, asked Clemens why McNamee would turn on him and lie. Roger's explanation: To keep from going to jail. The situation was crying out for Wallace to point out that lying about Clemens would make it much more likely, not less, that McNamee would go to jail, but Wallace let it go by without any challenge whatsoever. He wasn't that kind with Canseco.

Again and again, Clemens tried to capitalize with weak points that Wallace allowed to go by.

Why did Clemens only get injections from McNamee during a couple of seasons; if it was doing him so much good, why didn't he continue? Well, my assumption is that Clements did continue and that he either got across his reluctance to inject himself or he found someone more trustworthy than McNamee to do it for him. Maybe Clemens began filling the syringes with steroids himself in private and added B12 to the mix in view of the person administering the injection to provide himself deniability? That McNamee was no longer injecting Clemens does not necessarily mean that Clemens stopped getting injections.

A couple of times, Clemens asked why his tendons hadn't "turned to dust"? Well, why didn't those of Caminiti or Bonds? Caminiti admitted that he didn't know anything about steroids when he began using and blames -- without evidence -- steroids for the injuries late in his career, but a lot of ball players have more injuries as they get older. Not everyone's body behaves the same way towards training, age, and the effects of certain medications. I've used prednisone enough for my asthma to know that it doesn't work as efficiently on me every time either. It has always worked -- so far -- but sometimes it takes longer than others.

Well, Roger did say "swear". He'll get his chance in a few days. After the criticism the congressional committee took for allowing McGwire to "take the fifth" without technically invoking the fifth amendment, perhaps they'll push Clemens a little harder. Then Roger will get his chance: to 'fess up or to render himself liable to federal perjury charges that could put him in jail for a year or two.

Yes, other pitchers have pitched very successfully into their forties before Clemens. However, if you look at the top 100 list for ERA+ for a season, the only players on there who are in their forties are Cy Young at age 41 (in a 3-way tie for 44th) and Clemens at age 42 in 13th place, ahead of the 34-year-old Clemens in 16th place and the 27-year-old Clemens at age 27. There are a sprinkling of pitchers in their late thirties: Randy Johnson tied for 37th at age 38; Dazzy Vance tied for 58th at age 39; Lefty Grove at age 36 and Randy Johnson at age 39 tied for 63rd; Lefty Grove again at age 39 tied with himself at age 30 for 76th; Randy Johnson at 36 tied for 88th; and that's basically it.

Only Clemens and Cy Young managed the feat after reaching forty, and Cy Young did it way back in 1908! Yes, Nolan Ryan pitched until he was 46 and he was a "plus" pitcher (ERA+ over 100) into his forties, but his best ERA+ was when he was 34 years old.

Warren Spahn pitched until he was 44, but he's famous for adapting and pitching with guile instead of relying upon his stuff the way he did when he was younger. And Spahnie didn't put up the best ERA of his career after age 40, either. He twice tied his 5th best ERA+ and he placed second in the balloting for the Cy Young at ages 39 and 40, but he didn't roll back the years and throw like he did at the peak of his career.

Sorry, Roger, but methinks thou doth protest too much. Save it for the sworn testimony before congress.

It is pretty tough for me to make much of a comment about Wallace in this. I couldn't help but wonder, though, if he were pressing as hard as possible in the interview. I'd question the degree to which this interview was soft for two main reasons:

A) How well does Wallace really know baseball? When you say he pressed Canseco harder, did he bring up other players a la your Caminiti/Bonds example? How informed is he on the nature of steroids and HGH and the other acronyms that have become synonymous with the "juicers?" Additionally, how much time went into the interview? I'm sure that, back in the day, Wallace would sacrifice a lot to make each story worth hearing, but now that he's ancient and seems to have "emeritus" status on 60 Minutes, how much work went into the piece? Could it have been more sloppy than soft? (Ew. Sorry.)

B) Did he need to press much harder than he did? As another poster mentioned, Clemens looked a wreck. He seemed not to have his game face. I can't imagine him appearing as he did in this interview in the countless big games he's dominated his whole career. A lot of pro athletes are pro's at motivating their teams in the locker rooms, knowing when to be harsh and when to back off. I just don't think that it translates very well too often to other settings, like courts of law and journalism. Just like Raffy, he seems to think that he can muscle a veteran reporter (which is almost as foolish as trying to do the same to a veteran Congressman) into buying his statements. I don't think Wallace needed to say much else to get the point across.

I'm also not saying that I think it is dead certain that Roger is lying. Furthermore, I'm not saying that I care, but I think you bring up good points about the interview. I love your final sentences. Thoughts?

[blueberryale77]

That Beaner was pointing out the obvious that Clemens/Bonds were goign to be the names remembered in all this over the nobodies.

Even more problematic is that fact that names are going to be remembered more than recommendations... and that steroid hearings are going to be remembered more than most of the things Congress does this year that actually effect people's everyday lives. Roger Clemens' butt is so much more interesting than health insurance, tax policy, education funding....

[Migrant Redbird]

Wallace is huge baseball fan. He has a box at Yankee Stadium. He has close ties with the Yanks. Based on what I saw tonight, I surmised that he doesn't believe Clemens, didn't really want to do this interview, but wasn't willing to interview him thoroughly either. Mike Wallace is a brilliant man and a classically tough interviewer and it didn't take a brilliant man to completely expose Clemens tonight. He chose not to. I wouldn't have wanted to do it if I was him either, but I would have excused myself from the interview rather than pulled my punches.

Thanks for answering those questions much better than I could have. Points headed your way. I don't have the time to dig through the two interview transcripts for a line-by-line comparison of how "tough" Wallace was on Canseco compared to Clemens.

Frankly, I hesitated a little before making the comparison with the Canseco interview because it's been a while since I read that transcript and my recollection is primarily on the part where Wallace challenged Jose's assertion that he'd injected McGwire "many times" and got Jose to back off to the point that he "thought" he'd injected McGwire "at least once", but it was "a long time ago". It was my perception that Wallace was "softer" on Clemens, but I didn't do any line by line analysis to verify that perception.

Of course, Clemens is probably a lot smarter and was better prepared for the interview than Canseco was as well.