Something needs to be done about Wieters

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

No doubt you make a reasonable extension offer, 5/60 M seems ballpark to me and if he isn't interested you have to trade him. That's baseball. And if we do, you'll be surprised how much we get back in return.

Personally, the only way I see Wieters being dealt is if we're clearly out of the race the last year of his contract. He's not being traded for a bunch of prospects that would make the existing/contending club weaker, and I find it hard to imagine a scenario where we're going to be able to swap him for a comparable big league player who might be younger and plays a different position of need.

[joedogg9999]

You are saying him trade him after the season. Like there is some magical catcher out there that could be had that would be better than Wieters. I think it is obvious Matt is a better hitter than our DH or our second baseman. He has been better than Hardy a lot of the season. If we are facing a left hander Wieters is better than our left fielder hitting as well. You aren't using logic at all in your discussion in this thread.

Id rather trade wieters for a ToR pitcher and sign another defensive catcher (thats all matt is) for much cheaper than what wieters is going to demand. A #1 or even #2 starter helps this team far more than the difference berween matt and whoever else they would sign to catch. Quite honestly, wieters isnt even great defensively. If calling the game is counted as defense. Hes been terrible this year calling our games and he just doesnt help our pitchers out at all. All ive seen from wieters this year is the ability to throw out runners. THATS IT.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Id rather trade wieters for a ToR pitcher and sign another defensive catcher (thats all matt is) for much cheaper than what wieters is going to demand. A #1 or even #2 starter helps this team far more than the difference berween matt and whoever else they would sign to catch. Quite honestly, wieters isnt even great defensively. If calling the game is counted as defense. Hes been terrible this year calling our games and he just doesnt help our pitchers out at all. All ive seen from wieters this year is the ability to throw out runners. THATS IT.

You hate Wieters so much you can't even capitalize his name.

[Tony-OH]

Be very careful my friend. Criticizing Matt Wieters on this board is not looked upon too kindly. I've never seen a baseball community worship such a mediocre player. This town is crazy about Matt Wieters, but for the life of me I can't figure out why. I'd trade Wieters for just about anyone right now. I'd rather have Flaherty up at the plate in a critical situation than Wieters. And if his offense is not pathetic enough, it's now impacting his defense. He has lost two pop-ups in just the past week alone. No, I don't think it's fair to expect Wieters to hit .350, even though that's what we were told to expect. Is it too much to ask him to be able to hit .250? I think Wieters is an albatross around the neck of this team. His ineptitude is bringing down the good energy on this club. I hope he turns out to have a great season. I want to be wrong about Wieters, but he keeps giving me reasons to want him off this team.

Hyperbole Alert! Hyperbole alert! Seriously, you can't really mean those things. Wieters has been a disappointment with the bat due to the lofty predictions people made based off his incredible minor league numbers and draft status, but you honestly can't believe you would trade him away from "just about anyone" like he's killing the team of something. As for wanting Flaherty up there instead of Wieters, I'll assume you were using him for effect, and don't really believe that.

[El Gordo]

Personally, the only way I see Wieters being dealt is if we're clearly out of the race the last year of his contract. He's not being traded for a bunch of prospects that would make the existing/contending club weaker, and I find it hard to imagine a scenario where we're going to be able to swap him for a comparable big league player who might be younger and plays a different position of need.

People here may under value Wieters because he's not what SI expected, but teams around baseball that need a C would be drooling. We could get a very good return for him. I am not saying we trade him this season. But I think you offer him an extension in the off season and then explore your trade options. The longer we keep him the less value he has. But I don't think he gets traded. Buck see's him as a foundation for the team and Wieters wants to stay here. He's a family guy and most likely doesn't want to uproot things while his boy is still small. They'll work something out, IMO.

[Going Underground]

Wieters need to be signed because the Orioles are not getting anyone better. The question is will the contract be something that hurts the team in the long run. Wieters was on another team and you saw his stats,some people would not want the orioles to sign him to a 15 million or higher contract.

[El Gordo]

Wieters need to be signed because the Orioles are not getting anyone better. The question is will the contract be something that hurts the team in the long run. Wieters was on another team and you saw his stats,some people would not want the orioles to sign him to a 15 million or higher contract.

I think he is playing hurt right now, but in general I think you can expect him to be a 3.5- 4 WAR player. So considering you want to save money with an extension, I would agree 15 M per would be the top limit.

[BohKnowsBmore]

All of the "scouts" who had Wieters as the #1 prospect in baseball need to be fired and seek another line of work. How did they not pick up on any of his multiple offensive flaws?

I think they're sleeping just fine seeing that the guy they had pegged as the #1 prospect has made two AS games already and has a GG. Scouting is an inexact science. Wieters may be considered a "disappointment" to some, but he is certainly a success as a draft pick and as a prospect.

[Tony-OH]

No, he hasn't been better than Hardy. Sorry. And he won't be better than Betemit against RHP once he comes back. Sorry.

And yes, I would trade him because I think the value we could potentially get back in a trade outweighs the need to pay him whatever Boras may want. 5/58 is fair, especially because it buys out two arb years.

But again, moving him down in the order, or some other solution. That's the point of the thread.

Ok, who do you think we should trade him for and who catches? I've accepted who Wieters is and honestly, I don't see how we "upgrade" the team or position by trading him. Perhaps you can show us how that can be done by trading him. It's not like he becomes a Free agent at the end of the year.

[weams]

Well, to be fair, it is your shtick. We get this thread every year, and every year Wieters ends up one of the most valuable catchers in baseball. He's not going to hit like. Mauer with power, we all know this. He's still extremely valuable even though you refuse to let yourself get past his post draft hype. Most of us have moved on, and don't obsess over the fact he's not going to be a . 900 OPS catcher. Arrencibia is the only catcher with more HR than Wieters since 2011 so he does have power relative to the position.

Wieters is in a slump, but he's still basically a league-average offensive catcher (OPS+ of 92, median is 94, min 100 PAs).

What gets me is that there's no middle ground. You say this thread was a simple little innocent request to move him down in the order, but you title the thread "Something needs to be done about Wieters", and in a single sentence your initial post mentions that he's painful to watch, needs to give up switch hitting and be moved down in the order.

Your next post in the thread says he absolutely stinks against righties, and then you get all up in arms when people defend Wieters.

If you're going to get indignant and offended about fanboys rushing to Wieters' defense, you also need to acknowledge that the Wieters criticism is often over-the-top and barely connected to reality. Objectively he's an average or average+ offensive catcher with very good defense, yet seemingly every time he grounds out to second we're reminded that he failed to become Piazza with gold glove defense.

You don't have to be a fan boy to like Matt Wieters. Though I am sure that the sports radio types enjoy the fodder he occasionally gives them. His slumps are usually bad enough to call for his head semi-annually.

[weams]

Ok, who do you think we should trade him for and who catches? I've accepted who Wieters is and honestly, I don't see how we "upgrade" the team or position by trading him. Perhaps you can show us how that can be done by trading him. It's not like he becomes a Free agent at the end of the year.

It's a talking point right now. Not among people who cover real baseball.

[DrungoHazewood]

Wieters need to be signed because the Orioles are not getting anyone better. The question is will the contract be something that hurts the team in the long run. Wieters was on another team and you saw his stats,some people would not want the orioles to sign him to a 15 million or higher contract.

I think I evaluate the Orioles similarly to how I evaluate everyone else. Wieters has now played the equivalent of four 140-game seasons in his MLB career. He's been worth 12.7 rWAR, or 3.2 wins/year. On the free agent market 3.2 wins/year is worth in the neighborhood of $15M. Maybe you discount that a bit since he's 27 and at his theoretical peak. So let's say you set up a 5-year deal to be worth 3, 2.75, 2.5, 2.25, and 2 wins. That's a total of 12.5 wins over the next five years. Or $62.5M.

The next two years are arb years, so you'd want to discount those years by 40% and 20%. But you also probably want to account for salary inflation in baseball. On the back of this napkin, we'll assume those two things balance each other out.

So... we're left with something like a 5/60 deal being pretty fair.

[OFFNY]

Id rather trade wieters for a ToR pitcher and

sign another defensive catcher (thats all matt is) for much cheaper than what wieters is going to demand. A #1 or even #2 starter helps this team far more than the difference berween matt and whoever else they would sign to catch. Quite honestly, wieters isnt even great defensively. If calling the game is counted as defense. Hes been terrible this year calling our games and he just doesnt help our pitchers out at all. All ive seen from wieters this year is the ability to throw out runners. THATS IT.

As another poster pointed out in your comment in another thread ......

What in the world makes you think that we could get a top-of-the-rotation starter for Wieters based on YOUR evaluation of him ???

On one hand, you say that he sucks offensively and is overrated defensively, and on the other hand, you want (and expect) another major league general manager to be out there somewhere that is deaf, dumb and blind enough not to notice how overrated and mediocre that he actually is, and trade their best starting pitcher for him.

[waroriole]

I'll say the same thing I've always said about Wieters. He stands too tall in the batters box. Then, he gets into slumps where he rolls over low pitches, and grounds out 4-3. I think if he were more crouched in his stance, he would get more lift on those pitches. Maybe he's too tired from catching all the time.

[BohKnowsBmore]

I'll say the same thing I've always said about Wieters. He stands too tall in the batters box. Then, he gets into slumps where he rolls over low pitches, and grounds out 4-3. I think if he were more crouched in his stance, he would get more lift on those pitches. Maybe he's too tired from catching all the time.

Interesting take.