Adam Jones' slightly improved plate discipline from last year has disappeared.

[Barnaby Graves]

Does anyone know where to find the number of men left on base for hitters? I'm curious how AJ's numbers look especially his k's with runners in scoring position over the last 5 years+

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=6368&position=OF&season=2013

Play with the tabs until you find the data you want.

[jjdman]

He dreams of becoming the first MLB player in history to hit a 5 RBI HR.

Correct. It would take 6 pitches to intentionally walk AJ because he'd swing at two of them.

[Norfolk orioles]

He dreams of becoming the first MLB player in history to hit a 5 RBI HR.

I think I have the solution.

Every time he strikes out on a slider down in the dirt, he has to drop and do ten push-ups before returning to the dugout willy mays Hayes style.

It's got to be worth a shot right?

His plate discipline is reminiscent of vlad Guerrero except that vlad was a freak of nature who could hit a ball at his ankles out of the park (in his prime) while jones just whiffs or grounds it into the dirt.

On the bright side, the only reason he isn't batting .270 or so right now is that he has been legging out just enough infield hits lately to keep his average close to .300.

But if something doesn't change he will continue to plummet. The worst part about all this is that he has bonafide super star potential, if the ball is anywhere near the strike zone, he can smash it, but until he learns patience and that, yes, walks ARE ok with Chris Davis hitting behind you, he will continue to have a ton of potential that is going unfulfilled.

And even still, he's a damn solid player, but what frustrates most of us is that we can all see how good he COULD be if he'd just change his approach ever so slightly.

Maybe the key is to tell him to lay off ALL sliders for a while? If he sees any break on the ball at all, regardless of whether its hittable or not, lay off of it. Unless he's down two strikes, in which case he has to swing, but at least it would stop him from chasing sliders early in the count and getting himself into holes where he has to chase those pitches to "protect".

It's up to him to figure out how great a player he can truly be.

[SteveO]

I find it absolutely hilarious we have a 3 page thread about the one major hole in Adam Jones game. The guy is hitting .298 with 15HR, 55 RBI's .828 OPS 9 SB and has shown the ability to come up with big hits. He will likely be an All-Star OF. Listening to people gripe about him makes me cringe, they sound like obnoxious stuck up MFY fans.

I get its frustrating to watch him chase bad pitches but its also silly to constantly harp on it. Could he be an even better hitter if he figures out how to not bite on those pitches....sure. That said the league has a number of guys who are one major hole in their game away from being superstars like Cabrerra, Harper, Trout and 2 of our own who are quickly rising to that rank in Davis and Machado. If every guy who has that hole in their game could figure it out then guys like the aforementioned would not be as special as they are.

Just cause Adam may have a major hole in his game does not mean he is overvalued, overrated blah blah blah. The dude is a player that I would guess 31 other teams would love to have on their rosters in one second flat. Be thankful we have in CF and Xavier Avery or a number of other inferior players.

[SteveO]

I find it absolutely hilarious we have a 3 page thread about the one major hole in Adam Jones game. The guy is hitting .298 with 15HR, 55 RBI's .828 OPS 9 SB and has shown the ability to come up with big hits. He will likely be an All-Star OF. Listening to people gripe about him makes me cringe, they sound like obnoxious stuck up MFY fans.

I get its frustrating to watch him chase bad pitches but its also silly to constantly harp on it. Could he be an even better hitter if he figures out how to not bite on those pitches....sure. That said the league has a number of guys who are one major hole in their game away from being superstars like Cabrerra, Harper, Trout and 2 of our own who are quickly rising to that rank in Davis and Machado. If every guy who has that hole in their game could figure it out then guys like the aforementioned would not be as special as they are.

Just cause Adam may have a major hole in his game does not mean he is overvalued, overrated blah blah blah. The dude is a player that I would guess 31 other teams would love to have on their rosters in one second flat. Be thankful we have in CF and Xavier Avery or a number of other inferior players.

Sorry meant to say.... Be thankful we have him in CF and NOT Xavier Avery or a number of other inferior players.

[Norfolk orioles]

Sorry meant to say.... Be thankful we have him in CF and NOT Xavier Avery or a number of other inferior players.

It's really pretty funny that you can't figure out the difference between valid criticism and "whining".

Jones walk rate is pretty bad. As has already been stated, his chase rate is abysmal.

We aren't saying jones isn't a good player......some of us are just disappointed that he can't lay off those low sliders and become a super star. Most of us see the potential and while he's still a damn good player, some of us think he could be that much better.

No one has bashed jones or wished we didn't have him. No one.

[SteveO]

It's really pretty funny that you can't figure out the difference between valid criticism and "whining".

Jones walk rate is pretty bad. As has already been stated, his chase rate is abysmal.

We aren't saying jones isn't a good player......some of us are just disappointed that he can't lay off those low sliders and become a super star. Most of us see the potential and while he's still a damn good player, some of us think he could be that much better.

No one has bashed jones or wished we didn't have him. No one.

Maybe at some point the light will switch on and he will start to lay off those low sliders.

Maybe the walk rate will increase then.

Maybe this is what he is and if so the I for one am ok with a CF who puts up the numbers he does

In the past year I can remember about at least a half dozen threads outlining this valid criticism and I agree its valid.

I just think its silly that every time he has a stretch of 5 or 6 games were he is slumping we have the inevitable Adam Jones cant lay off the slider thread.

Its k. People are entitled to their opinions as am I.

I to get frustrated by the chasing the slider. Just sometimes I feel like with Jones in particular there is a tendency to forget all that he does right when he is in a funk.

Sorry though. Guess I was feeling protective lol

[SeaBird]

If Buck and our hitting coach JP showed AJ film clips every day of his pathetic at bats and striking out on balls that are way out of the strike zone he might wake up. It's going to take more. I really think he needs a sports psychologist to be in a film room with him and ask him why he continues to swing at these bad pitches. I said a few weeks ago he seems to be a smart guy and should be smart enough to control himself at the plate and show better plate discipline. If the psychologist says to him we are going to meet immediately after every game. Forget about doing pies in the face and get in the film room with me. If you strike out or swing at these low and away pitches there is going to be a penalty. Tell him the visiting dugout players and pitchers are laughing at him. Don't continue to look dumb. You are too smart to play these pitchers game. The penalty for you every time you strike out swinging at one of these low and away pitches is for you to go into the locker room after the game and be prepared for the following; a pie in the face and to sit on a pie for at least 15 minutes whlle interviewed by reporters. The shrink should tell him to think about this every time he goes to the plate. I'm not sure it would work but he might think about it. How else do you break this habit? If they still had the kangaroo court Frank Robinson would find a penalty for him. I hope this is the last time I say this......he looks like a guy that's taking batting practice and only has a few minutes before going out in the field and has to go to the bathroom. AJ is just too anxious? Why?

Spare the cost of a sports psychologist.

Just spank the guy and send him to bed with no supper.

[DrungoHazewood]

To be fair, Ks are up throughout the league. There was a story on this on ESPN.com recently. If he goes on to K 135 times, it will be about the same as last year, if you grade on a curve.

Yea, I was going to mention that Ks are up about 10% across baseball since 2008. We're at the historical high water mark for strikeouts (and there's no indication that will level off anytime soon), so you have to constantly grade strikeouts on a curve. As recently as the early 80s strikeouts were under five per nine, now five per nine pretty much gets you run out of the league as a pitcher.

Fun fact: In 1918 Dode Paskert and Ross Youngs tied for the AL lead with 49 strikeouts. This year Mark Reynolds passed that mark in late May.

[DrungoHazewood]

Spare the cost of a sports psychologist.

Just spank the guy and send him to bed with no supper.

Two reasons MLB players fail:

1) They're unaware of their failures

2) They haven't been appropriately punished

Just because you're in the top 0.001% of your profession doesn't mean you're not on the same mental level as a 6 month old puppy.

[centralpaosfan]

I know several posters on here will very much disagree with me, but I think most of Adam's issues at the plate have to do with his ego/selfishness. He swings as hard as he can no matter what the count is and pretty much refuses to take a walk. Would cutting down your swing with two strikes (see: Markakis, Davis, Hardy) or drawing a walk (see: Mclouth, Davis, Markakis) help your team?....yep. Does Adam do it?....nope!

There are a lot of people on here who have much more knowledge about hitting technique than myself. Maybe they can comment on whether they agree or disagree with my assessment. When Adam struggles at the plate he is attempting to yank every pitch 400 feet down the left field line. He steps toward the 3rd base coaching box and his eyes are looking at the LF upper deck when he finishes his swing. He doesn't need to bother hitting balls off of a tee, rather sit in a video room and watch an hours worth of Markakis at bats.

[Can_of_corn]

It's like 1988 all over again.

[Babypowder]

I think I have the solution.

Every time he strikes out on a slider down in the dirt, he has to drop and do ten push-ups before returning to the dugout willy mays Hayes style.

It's got to be worth a shot right?

His plate discipline is reminiscent of vlad Guerrero except that vlad was a freak of nature who could hit a ball at his ankles out of the park (in his prime) while jones just whiffs or grounds it into the dirt.

On the bright side, the only reason he isn't batting .270 or so right now is that he has been legging out just enough infield hits lately to keep his average close to .300.

But if something doesn't change he will continue to plummet. The worst part about all this is that he has bonafide super star potential, if the ball is anywhere near the strike zone, he can smash it, but until he learns patience and that, yes, walks ARE ok with Chris Davis hitting behind you, he will continue to have a ton of potential that is going unfulfilled.

And even still, he's a damn solid player, but what frustrates most of us is that we can all see how good he COULD be if he'd just change his approach ever so slightly.

Maybe the key is to tell him to lay off ALL sliders for a while? If he sees any break on the ball at all, regardless of whether its hittable or not, lay off of it. Unless he's down two strikes, in which case he has to swing, but at least it would stop him from chasing sliders early in the count and getting himself into holes where he has to chase those pitches to "protect".

It's up to him to figure out how great a player he can truly be.

Vlad actually walked at much higher rates than Adam in his prime. Guerrero's discipline didn't fall to these levels until his was finished.

[isestrex]

Vlad actually walked at much higher rates than Adam in his prime. Guerrero's discipline didn't fall to these levels until his was finished.

Yet his O-Swing% led Jones (and all of baseball) in 2011 (well pretty much every year).

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=5&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=3,d

So technically Adam's plate discipline does resemble Vlad a lot, but obviously the lack of walks is a glaring difference.

[DrungoHazewood]

Vlad actually walked at much higher rates than Adam in his prime. Guerrero's discipline didn't fall to these levels until his was finished.

I don't think that's actually true. Over 1/3rd of Vlad's career walks were intentional (250 of 737). The year he set a career high with 84 walks he only really had 52 unintentional. And I'd guess that a fair number of those were unintentional-intentional walks where they weren't throwing him anything within reach (which I realize was hard to do with Vlad).

In UBB% Vlad was ahead 5.5% to 4.3%, but again I'd attribute a lot of that to the fact that Vlad was hitting .330 with a 1.000 OPS in his prime and nobody wanted to give him anything to hit. Just like Chris Davis or Sammy Sosa - they got somewhat better in pitch recognition, but their improved walk rates were/are driven more by fear.

Edit: one other thing... walk rates are the one thing with hitters that usually just improves with age. It doesn't ever collapse like other hitting attributes. But what does happen is pitchers don't fear 38-year-old hitters as much so they challenge them more. I'd take Vlad's late career 17 walks in 590 PAs as a decent proxy for his innate plate discipline, minus the fear factor.