ESPN: "O's must trade for a starter"

[Pickles]

Garza won't cost that much precisely because he is a 2 month rental. No team is giving up that much for him. We currently have 3 SP that we can count on for QS most times out. That's just not enough. To hope and pray Britton, or Gausman can give us innings, is swigging the Kool Aid.

Is it swigging the kool aid to think that Chen will be back very soon, and is just as good as anybody else we have?

[Tx Oriole]

Garza won't cost that much precisely because he is a 2 month rental. No team is giving up that much for him. We currently have 3 SP that we can count on for QS most times out. That's just not enough. To hope and pray Britton, or Gausman can give us innings, is swigging the Kool Aid.

I hope they can get Garza.

[RHall31]

I keep hearing Matt Garza and Cliff Lee as trade possibilities, but has anyone truly considered what either one of those guys would cost the Orioles in players and money? Garza is an unrestricted FA after this season and is sure to test the market. He would be here as a 3 month loner.

And Cliff Lee still has what....$70 million?.... left on a contract that goes through 2016. Even if the Phillies did offer him, he would cost the Orioles far too much in both money, and players in return. Lee is a fantasy baseballer's wet dream, not a logical reality for the Orioles.

And quite honestly, the other names being tossed about are no better than what we already have. I think the O's go after another hard throwing reliever and stick with the SP's they have. And if they are serious about adding an ?ace? then they can join in the Garza bidding in the off-season

I would pay that money in a heartbeat for Lee. A true Ace for 3+ seasons. You are right though, no way Angelos forks up that kind of money.

[primetime]

Except for when DD went and traded for Pedro Martinez at his peak, then yes, it may be literally the furthest thing from his style.

Comparing Duq getting Pedro to any hypothetical Cliff Lee deal is apples to oranges.

Pedro was a guy that Duq already knew from his days with the Expos and he traded for him in the off-season, and in his prime.

[Orioles0615]

He is great in the bullpen, minus that Cespedes bomb. Maybe he can be great as a starter again. If he starts, a few bombs won't be the worse thing in the world. Just make sure they are solos.

I wouldn't call Matusz great out of the bullpen, I would call him average.

[Malike]

Comparing Duq getting Pedro to any hypothetical Cliff Lee deal is apples to oranges.

Pedro was a guy that Duq already knew from his days with the Expos and he traded for him in the off-season, and in his prime.

Saying it is literally not his M. O. to trade for an Ace starting pitcher is wrong. It makes little difference that he knew Pedro, he didn't negotiate a trade with Pedro, he negotiated with the Expos FO. I also think it's silly to say that because it happened in the offseason he wouldn't make a big trade in season. I hope he doesn't trade for a 25M dollar pitcher, but it's not unprecedented that he'd make a trade for a number 1.

[NewMarketSean]

I do think we need a SP and a bullpen arm to replace Strop.

That said, Chen will do a lot to stabilize the rotation once he comes back and if he can pick up where he left off -- and if Gausman can continue to improve, our needs will become less dire.

I'd like more SP depth. Another low-cost arm in the Joe Saunders mold could provide that.

[Mayor McCheese]

Seriously people... we are NOT getting Cliff Lee.

The Orioles are interested in Garza(which is the best option on the table) but the price is too high.

I don't see any point in trading for Norris or Nolasco.

[TXOriole]

We can surely make the playoffs with the roster we have today...but when we come across a top pitching staff backed by a good offense...we're probably screwed

[SeaBird]

I think we can get to the playoffs but I lose sleep worrying about getting bounced again without a better starter in the rotation.

But seriously, who is going to stop this insane offense? I have never seen anything like it.

ESPN and the rest of the national media are correct; the Orioles need a TOR pitcher or they will fall short as currently staffed. In all of MLB only Houston has worse pitching. And the insane offense will stop itself as the dog days take hold. I see Davis getting walked or pitched around a lot more in the 2nd half.

[Orioles1954]

Seriously people... we are NOT getting Cliff Lee.

The Orioles are interested in Garza(which is the best option on the table) but the price is too high.

I don't see any point in trading for Norris or Nolasco.

If we have another DL stint of a starter then trading for someone like Norris or Nolasco will make a great difference in terms of depth. I would love to see us get an innings eater like Jason Vargas. He is on the DL now, but should be back near the trading deadline. Forget Lee and focus on Norris or Vargas...especially the latter.

[oceanicvoyage]

Seriously people... we are NOT getting Cliff Lee.

The Orioles are interested in Garza(which is the best option on the table) but the price is too high.

I don't see any point in trading for Norris or Nolasco.

I might be starting a larger debate, but I’m confused about Garza being the best option because he has AL East success. With the Yankees as they are now, I don’t see the AL East as dominant as it once was.

For Example, Bud Norris has probably faced tougher competition in the AL West than Chris Tillman has in the AL East. Bud Norris has faced the Angels (4 times), Cubs , WSox, Mariners (2), O’s, Rockies, Royals, Tigers (2), A’s (2), and Rangers. Chris Tillman has faced the Yankees, Indians, Tigers, Red Sox (2), rays (3), Astros, nationals, blue jays (2), padres, royals, angels. If you add up all the Team runs of each of those opponents for each of the 17 games they have pitched, Bud Norris has faced 6223 runs while Chris Tillman has faced 5567 runs. Or if you are a fan of weighted Runs Created Plus (via fangraphs), then Bud Norris has faced 1728 while Chris Tillman has faced 1524. There are obviously some flaws in this(like looking into remaining strength of schedule – but it can’t be that much different), but using wRC+ it makes sense that pitching in the AL East isn’t that much of a difference – if at all. Bud Norris has been having a better season than Chris Tillman while facing a tougher schedule.

Also, If Bud Norris were to join the O’s, the defense would be better (O’s UZR/150 =5.1 and Astros UZR/150 =-10.5) and that would make one less powerful offense he would have to face.

I know he isn't a TOR, but I wouldn’t mind having two Chris Tillman-esque performances every 5 days.

[backwardsk]

Wouldn't Norris cost more because he's controlled for longer, costs less, and Garza could leave in the winter?

[BohKnowsBmore]

Haven't read through all of the thread yet but I'm of the mind that a #5 innings eater type won't do too much for us. If we trade for anyone he'd have to be worthy of being one of three playoff starters.

[primetime]

Saying it is literally not his M. O. to trade for an Ace starting pitcher is wrong. It makes little difference that he knew Pedro, he didn't negotiate a trade with Pedro, he negotiated with the Expos FO. I also think it's silly to say that because it happened in the offseason he wouldn't make a big trade in season. I hope he doesn't trade for a 25M dollar pitcher, but it's not unprecedented that he'd make a trade for a number 1.

Not necessarily, off season trades are just different than in season trades. Starting pitching tends to cost more in terms of talent at the deadline than in the off season simply due to multiple bidders being in play and the pressure of needing to make a move now.