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How do the O's push a starter with a 2.74 ERA over his last four starts out of the rotation?


wildcard

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I said "operate" like Tampa, I said nothing of the sort about how much we spend compared to them. I am well aware of what our payroll is and has been.

Letting a guy who was your 5th starter walk over 1 year and 6 million and hoping a bunch of unproven young cheaper options is the how a budget constrained team operates, like the Rays. And like the Orioles.

I guess now they are slightly cheaper after taking on Feldman's deal?

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Lets cherry pick numbers to support our theory that letting the guy that helped us down the stretch at the back of our rotation is no good anymore since we were too cheap to pay him!

He surely couldn't have helped us this year, nah of course not.

I wasn't trying to cherry pick, I used Wins, Losses and ERA because you didn't appear capable of understanding more advanced metrics.

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I wasn't trying to cherry pick, I used Wins, Losses and ERA because you didn't appear capable of understanding more advanced metrics.

Ohh "advanced metrics", yeah I clearly am not capable unlike you are to comprehend these extremely complicated mathematical equations. Maybe one day I will be on your intellectual level, but meanwhile just spoon feeed me little things so one day I might get it.

So I am guessing you would rather have TJ McFarland, Freddy Garcia, and any other bum they trot out there in the 5th spot over Saunders?

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I guess Hammel would take it unless he was confident he could get a multi year deal. How he pitches the rest of the way will say a lot in that regard. I am worried about this year and I think you keep him.

As far as next year if we go with what you want we will being putting a lot of pressure on some young pitchers to step up with very little depth.

That's my point. We need to get more SP. If we aren't spending for it we have to trade for it.
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Ohh "advanced metrics", yeah I clearly am not capable unlike you are to comprehend these extremely complicated mathematical equations. Maybe one day I will be on your intellectual level, but meanwhile just spoon feeed me little things so one day I might get it.

So I am guessing you would rather have TJ McFarland, Freddy Garcia, and any other bum they trot out there in the 5th spot over Saunders?

Are you in fact conversant in such concepts as DIPS, BABIP, ERA+, and xFIP?

If so you would be the first such person I have come across that looked at advanced metrics and forgot to check something as simple as home/road splits.

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I said "operate" like Tampa, I said nothing of the sort about how much we spend compared to them. I am well aware of what our payroll is and has been.

Letting a guy who was your 5th starter walk over 1 year and 6 million and hoping a bunch of unproven young cheaper options is the how a budget constrained team operates, like the Rays. And like the Orioles.

Operating like Tampa would mean trading a core guy like Shields because he's getting too expensive. Letting a mediocre at best Joe Saunders walk is hardly the same.

This is a joke right?

Career

Joe Saunders: 4.20 ERA, 1.38 WHIP

Freddy Garcia: 4.15 ERA, 1.30 WHIP

2010-2013

Joe Saunders: 4.18 ERA, 1.38 WHIP

Freddy Garcia: 4.42 ERA, 1.35 WHIP

But you go ahead and spend your $6 million however you'd like.

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Three months ago many thought Davis could not repeat his 33 homer of 2012. Now most think he has a pretty good chance to get his 33 homer this year. Three months ago nice improvement for Manny would have been to hit for 760 OPS. Now people are expecting a little more.

The O's pitching is likely to take a step forward in the second half. And as the pitching goes so goes the O's. So don't count the O's out with 3 months to go. They may surprise you.

Our offense isn't much when Manny and Davis aren't hitting. It looks to me like they are both getting pitched differently, and it is going to take them a while to figure things out and make the adjustment. If they are scuffling for a week or two, we can look forward to more of what we saw against the Chisox. It's possible we can get the second WC, but we are competing with TOR, TB, MFY, OAK, CLE, for it. We can't afford a losing streak now. And if we do get to the playoffs, we aren't competing without a TOR.
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Ohh "advanced metrics", yeah I clearly am not capable unlike you are to comprehend these extremely complicated mathematical equations. Maybe one day I will be on your intellectual level, but meanwhile just spoon feeed me little things so one day I might get it.

So I am guessing you would rather have TJ McFarland, Freddy Garcia, and any other bum they trot out there in the 5th spot over Saunders?

I'd rather have Feldman over Saunders.
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<PRE>

Split G IP ER ERA PA AB R H 2B 3B HR SB CS BB SO SO/BB BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+

1st inning 17 17.0 10 5.29 76 70 10 22 4 0 2 1 0 5 16 3.20 .314 .355 .457 .812 32 2 0 0 1 0 0 .377 102 118

2nd inning 17 17.0 6 3.18 76 70 9 18 4 0 1 1 0 5 19 3.80 .257 .303 .357 .660 25 1 0 0 1 0 3 .333 66 85

3rd inning 17 17.0 9 4.76 73 63 9 17 6 0 2 1 0 7 6 0.86 .270 .342 .460 .803 29 2 1 0 2 0 0 .263 99 125

4th inning 17 16.0 10 5.62 65 60 9 13 2 0 6 0 0 3 10 3.33 .217 .277 .550 .827 33 1 2 0 0 0 0 .159 99 115

5th inning 16 14.2 6 3.68 60 51 4 13 2 0 1 1 0 8 8 1.00 .255 .367 .353 .720 18 4 1 0 0 1 0 .286 84 98

6th inning 14 13.0 8 5.54 56 51 7 14 1 1 4 0 0 2 8 4.00 .275 .309 .569 .878 29 0 1 1 1 0 0 .250 113 130

7th inning 7 5.0 9 16.20 30 23 7 10 1 0 2 1 0 3 5 1.67 .435 .517 .739 1.256 17 0 2 1 1 0 0 .471 210 253

8th inning 1 1.0 0 0.00 4 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .250 .250 .250 .500 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .333 27 48

Innings 1-3 17 51.0 25 4.41 225 203 28 57 14 0 5 3 0 17 41 2.41 .281 .333 .424 .757 86 5 1 0 4 0 3 .323 89 109

Innings 4-6 17 43.2 24 4.95 181 162 20 40 5 1 11 1 0 13 26 2.00 .247 .317 .494 .810 80 5 4 1 1 1 0 .230 99 115

Innings 7-9 7 6.0 9 13.50 34 27 7 11 1 0 2 1 0 3 6 2.00 .407 .485 .667 1.152 18 0 2 1 1 0 0 .450 186 235

</PRE>

Provided by <a href="http://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Baseball-Reference.com</a>: <a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=hammeja01&year=2013&t=p&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#innng">View Original Table</a><br>Generated 7/5/2013.

maybe Hammel should just be taken out after the 6th

Novel approach.

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That's my point. We need to get more SP. If we aren't spending for it we have to trade for it.

So Hammel is going to get someone similar in a deal? Why would a team trade for him for 2 months for? I am not saying not to trade for pitching but I don't see how Hammel helps in that regard.

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My best guess is that someone goes to the pen (Gausman?) goes back down. Hammel seems like the obvious one, but Buck hasn't had much faith in the lefties lately, so it wouldn't surprise me to see Zach get moved.

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So Hammel is going to get someone similar in a deal? Why would a team trade for him for 2 months for? I am not saying not to trade for pitching but I don't see how Hammel helps in that regard.
He gets us a SP prospect. We need as many as we can get. AR, TEX, SF, CLE, could use some back of the rotation help.
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The answer is they don't.

Zach Britton's last four starts have been great for 5 innings and now he extended to 7 innings in his last start. He is earning his spot in the rotation.

With Chen returning on Tuesday, someone has to go (probably to the pen) from the rotation. Tillman, Gonzalez, Chen, Britton, Hammel and Feldman makes one too many starters for a 5 man rotation. Right now Hammel's 5.19 ERA sticks out as the one who does not belong. But he has a start on Sunday against the Yankees to make his case to continue his streak of not missing a start.

Having 6 starters for 5 slots is a good thing for the O's. They already made room in the pen when they traded Strop. Now who becomes another long reliever along side McFarland? The answer is coming over the next few days.

Just watch us.

walking_the_plank_postcard-r57a434113e7b4d4197fd1ad9188ad8ca_vgbaq_8byvr_512.jpg

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Our offense isn't much when Manny and Davis aren't hitting. It looks to me like they are both getting pitched differently, and it is going to take them a while to figure things out and make the adjustment. If they are scuffling for a week or two, we can look forward to more of what we saw against the Chisox. It's possible we can get the second WC, but we are competing with TOR, TB, MFY, OAK, CLE, for it. We can't afford a losing streak now. And if we do get to the playoffs, we aren't competing without a TOR.

DD doesn't trade of TOR starters. He develops them. Tillman, Gausman....... That is why I say don't think you know what the O's will be in 3 months. There could be as much improvement in those guys as there has been in Davis and Manny.

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