Could Tillman be the Orioles 1st 20 Game Winner in a long time?

[OriolesMagic83]

where is the "pitcher wins need to die already" option

Almost as meaningless as team wins. I can't wait till a team's meaningless w/l percentage is replaced by some meaningful stat like run differential. The "experts" were rightly enraged when the O's managed to sneak into the playoffs last year with a barely positive run differential.

As a baseball neanderthal, I'll take 5 20 game winners next year w/ mediocre WHIPs.

[Flash- bd]

Well, this thread was a rather surprisingly fun read.

[SilentJames]

I know wins are meaningless on their own. BUT, If you win 20 games in the MLB that means you are doing something right. Bad pitchers don't really win 20 games very often.

We all know that many pitchers win games they don't deserve to win and lose games they don't deserve to lose. Right now, according to ERA+, Tillman is 17th in the AL comparable to Doug Fister and CJ Wilson.

[DrungoHazewood]

Almost as meaningless as team wins. I can't wait till a team's meaningless w/l percentage is replaced by some meaningful stat like run differential. The "experts" were rightly enraged when the O's managed to sneak into the playoffs last year with a barely positive run differential.

As a baseball neanderthal, I'll take 5 20 game winners next year w/ mediocre WHIPs.

Surely you can see the difference between team wins, and assigning those wins based on who happened to start games with a lot of runs scored, and happened to be on the mound when the offense took the lead? Nobody has a bit of an issue with winning, it's the bizarre and antiquated process to assign full credit for that win to someone who may or may not have had much of anything to do with it.

And, yea, we'd all be happy with five mediocre 20-game winners next year, since it would mean the O's were scoring eight or nine runs a game. That would be fun.

[ledzepp8]

That would certainly be better than the status quo. We don't say Joe Flacco was 11-5, do we? Or that LeBron was 56-22? So why do we take the contributions of an entire team and give credit for the win to a guy who may not have been responsible for 1/3rd of the credit?

Well to be fair, you will sometimes hear people say that Joe Flacco (or whomever) was 11-5 as a starter. It's just not as much as in baseball.

[Roll Tide]

Almost as meaningless as team wins. I can't wait till a team's meaningless w/l percentage is replaced by some meaningful stat like run differential. The "experts" were rightly enraged when the O's managed to sneak into the playoffs last year with a barely positive run differential.

As a baseball neanderthal, I'll take 5 20 game winners next year w/ mediocre WHIPs.

I thought it would be fun to count down Tillman's chance at 20 Wins. I'm not giving him all the credit or anything like that...but it's been a long time since any Oriole even had a shot.

[weams]

Almost as meaningless as team wins. I can't wait till a team's meaningless w/l percentage is replaced by some meaningful stat like run differential. The "experts" were rightly enraged when the O's managed to sneak into the playoffs last year with a barely positive run differential.

As a baseball neanderthal, I'll take 5 20 game winners next year w/ mediocre WHIPs.

Of course this is what we forget when we look at some numbers. A win is a win. For team, for starter.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

I'll sidestep the W debate altogether, and just make an unrelated observation. It seems funny to me now that so many people desperately wanted to trade Tillman for Billy Butler or Kendrys Morales(among others) over the offseason(I personally did not). I recall that there were even rumors that his name was being discussed in potential trade talks.

Thank Moses cooler heads prevailed. Anyone else with me?

[25 Nuggets]

I wouldn't have complained if Billy Butler were in town. 27 years old and still with a 120 OPS+ in a down year. But having Tillman I think turned out to be more important this season.

I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on Morales but it's nice to see he's doing well after that unfortunate injury of his.

Between this year and last, Tillman is 22-6 with a 3.34 ERA and 1.199 WHIP. Keep it up big boy!

[weams]

I'll sidestep the W debate altogether, and just make an unrelated observation. It seems funny to me now that so many people desperately wanted to trade Tillman for Billy Butler or Kendrys Morales(among others) over the offseason(I personally did not). I recall that there were even rumors that his name was being discussed in potential trade talks.

Thank Moses cooler heads prevailed. Anyone else with me?

I would have complained if we had traded the closest thing to a top of the rotation pitcher for any DH.

[weams]

I wouldn't have complained if Billy Butler were in town. 27 years old and still with a 120 OPS+ in a down year. But having Tillman I think turned out to be more important this season.

I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on Morales but it's nice to see he's doing well after that unfortunate injury of his.

Between this year and last, Tillman is 22-6 with a 3.34 ERA and 1.199 WHIP. Keep it up big boy!

Designated. Hitter. At age 27.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

I wouldn't have complained if Billy Butler were in town. 27 years old and still with a 120 OPS+ in a down year. But having Tillman I think turned out to be more important this season.

I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on Morales but it's nice to see he's doing well after that unfortunate injury of his.

Between this year and last, Tillman is 22-6 with a 3.34 ERA and 1.199 WHIP. Keep it up big boy!

Exactly my point. Imagine how bad the rotation would've looked out of the gate and up to this point without him.

[25 Nuggets]

Hey, I'm not saying I would'a been right weams. Totally wrong. I just don't like talking out of both sides of my mouth. :thumbsup1:

[DrungoHazewood]

Designated. Hitter. At age 27.

Not that I did/do want to trade Tillman for Butler. But I'd be perfectly fine penciling in a 120 OPS+ every day at DH for the next five years. I would rather have someone who can't field and knows it, rather than 13 or 14 players on the roster who all think they're too good to DH and Buck treats the spot as a rotating thing to keep anyone from having to do it all the time (and getting abysmal production out of it).

[weams]

Hey, I'm not saying I would'a been right weams. Totally wrong. I just don't like talking out of both sides of my mouth. :thumbsup1:

Very fair. I have always been against trading Tillman. I am glad we did not.