Why can't we trade for Chris Sale?

[bt12483]

When's the last time the O's had an ace they acquired from elsewhere?

Maybe that played a role in 14 years of losing a little. Maybe.

How do you know Sale will continue to be good and healthy in an organization that hasn't had an ace of any kind for more than a decade?

This post just sounds full of fear.

How do you know he won't be "good and healthy" here?

So, your theory is...we haven't had an ace for so long, so why get an ace now? I just don't get the logic. You are essentially saying "why improve this team"?

You get an ace to be more competitive and win more games. And win in the playoffs. And compete for the WS.

[Lester Freamon]

Maybe that played a role in 14 years of losing a little. Maybe.

This post just sounds full of fear.

How do you know he won't be "good and healthy" here?

So, your theory is...we haven't had an ace for so long, so why get an ace now? I just don't get the logic. You are essentially saying "why improve this team"?

You get an ace to be more competitive and win more games. And win in the playoffs. And compete for the WS.

IMO, if Sale is truly available Duquette will absolutely inquire, I don't think you need to worry about that. However, I have no idea what it would actually take to get him and unless you can project an actual package that we could offer that you think the White Sox would accept AND couldn't/wouldn't be beat by another team, then this whole exercise is a bit pointless and the point of contention is simply would the O's pursue him. I disagree with you in that Duquette would do the due dilligence. But I agree with you in that, perhaps, the cost to acquire Sale would be something Duquette would not go for.

[bt12483]

IMO, if Sale is truly available Duquette will absolutely inquire, I don't think you need to worry about that. However, I have no idea what it would actually take to get him and unless you can project an actual package that we could offer that you think the White Sox would accept AND couldn't/wouldn't be beat by another team, then this whole exercise is a bit pointless and the point of contention is simply would the O's pursue him. I disagree with you in that Duquette would do the due dilligence. But I agree with you in that, perhaps, the cost to acquire Sale would be something Duquette would not go for.

All I know is that if one of our direct competitors for a playoff spot gets Sale I will be quite disappointed, because it seems like we are never in the running to make moves like this.

We are never a frontrunner for things like this.

[Lester Freamon]

All I know is that if one of our direct competitors for a playoff spot gets Sale I will be quite disappointed, because it seems like we are never in the running to make moves like this.

We are never a frontrunner for things like this.

I would be disappointed too because that competitor (mostly if it's an AL East team) will have, seemingly, gotten better for this season. However, I can't truly speculate on this because I have no idea as to what type of talent said team will have to give up to get him. I can also imagine a scenario where I'm glad to see the Red Sox, for example, part with a great combination of ML and ML ready talent from their organization. Until we see Sale traded and see what that package is and then speculate as to whether or not the O's could have/should have topped it, we'll just have to stay frosty, I guess.

[weams]

Jean Segura.

[bt12483]

I would be disappointed too because that competitor (mostly if it's an AL East team) will have, seemingly gotten better for this season. However, I can't truly speculate on this because I have no idea as to what type of talent said team will have to give up to get him. I can also imagine a scenario where I'm glad to see the Red Sox, for example, part with a great combination of ML and ML ready talent from their organization. Until we see Sale traded and see what that package is and then speculate as to whether or not the O's could have/should have topped it, we'll just have to stay frosty, I guess.

Speaking of frosty: seeing the "30th anniversary" WS floppy hat last night just makes me more impatient. In addition to residual bitterness over losing for 14 years.

I don't want the team to be risk averse just for the sake of being risk averse.

[DrungoHazewood]

Maybe that played a role in 14 years of losing a little. Maybe.This post just sounds full of fear.How do you know he won't be "good and healthy" here?So, your theory is...we haven't had an ace for so long, so why get an ace now? I just don't get the logic. You are essentially saying "why improve this team"?You get an ace to be more competitive and win more games. And win in the playoffs. And compete for the WS.

I think you missed my point, which was if you can use "the O's haven't developed an ace in decades" as a reason for trading their top pitching prospects, then you can also use "the O's haven't gotten an ace by any means in over a decade" as a reason for avoiding acquiring one. In truth, I think it's silly to use what the O's did or didn't do 5, 10, 15 years ago as justification for anything.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't want the team to be risk averse just for the sake of being risk averse.

I would love to see them take on the risk of developing Gausman and Bundy into homegrown aces.

[DrungoHazewood]

All I know is that if one of our direct competitors for a playoff spot gets Sale I will be quite disappointed, because it seems like we are never in the running to make moves like this.We are never a frontrunner for things like this.

The Orioles do not have the resources, in prospects, surplus MLB players, or money that many of their direct competitors do.

[Lester Freamon]

Speaking of frosty: seeing the "30th anniversary" WS floppy hat last night just makes me more impatient. In addition to residual bitterness over losing for 14 years.

I don't want the team to be risk averse just for the sake of being risk averse.

I totally get what you are saying. The O's as an organization are in a very interesting spot. This is a young team with a young core that will be in tact for a little while longer. We have a middle of the pack minor league system that is trending upward, IMO. We are also middle of the pack budget wise and will start to rise as our younger team controlled players continue to earn raises. It's definitely a tough spot for many fans. Duquette is trying to build a top notch organization from bottom to top, think Saint Louis Cardinals. We're not there yet but could be on that way. Trading for Sale, while improving this teams chances, would decimate the progress Duquette is making toward his stated goal. Is it worth it when the 40 man roster we currently have (including DL'd players) might actually be good enough to win the World Series as is or even with just some small additions? That "MIGHT" is the question fans have to grapple with.

[Baldimore, hon]

I advocated for trading for Sale earlier this year when people were talking about Peavy instead. I would trade Feldman, Britton, Bundy, Casilla/Reimold, Schoop, Avery, and Ed Rod. Feldman opens up a spot in our rotation. Britton has shown recently that he is about as close to ready for the majors as he will be and could be a dominant player. Bundy is Bundy, just an injured version of him. Casilla helps us to bring up Urrutia. Schoop gives them a long-term 2B/SS/3B option, wherever they so desire. Avery has the tools to be a very good player. EdRod gives another good prospect.

The biggest loss here for the present is bench speed if Casilla is the one to go or RH DH power if Reimold is the one to go. I think Buck likes Flaherty as our 2Bman of the future. To be honest, I wouldn't mind that, I don't think.

[Spoonless]

I don't know. Ask CHI. Apparently they are not opposed to hearing offers for Sale, which is why I started this thread.

If they are willing to listen, they will hear offers from a plurality of teams.

I'm sure the Orioles aren't opposed to hearing offers for Machado.

[bt12483]

The Orioles do not have the resources, in prospects, surplus MLB players, or money that many of their direct competitors do.

Regarding prospects and players - well maybe it is time to improve that situation (which I think we are, but it is a slow process).

Regarding money, you will have a hard time convincing me that we can't afford to spend more than we do.

[bt12483]

I advocated for trading for Sale earlier this year when people were talking about Peavy instead. I would trade Feldman, Britton, Bundy, Casilla/Reimold, Schoop, Avery, and Ed Rod. Feldman opens up a spot in our rotation. Britton has shown recently that he is about as close to ready for the majors as he will be and could be a dominant player. Bundy is Bundy, just an injured version of him. Casilla helps us to bring up Urrutia. Schoop gives them a long-term 2B/SS/3B option, wherever they so desire. Avery has the tools to be a very good player. EdRod gives another good prospect.

The biggest loss here for the present is bench speed if Casilla is the one to go or RH DH power if Reimold is the one to go. I think Buck likes Flaherty as our 2Bman of the future. To be honest, I wouldn't mind that, I don't think.

I would be fine with that package.

[allquixotic]

I would be disappointed too because that competitor (mostly if it's an AL East team) will have, seemingly, gotten better for this season. However, I can't truly speculate on this because I have no idea as to what type of talent said team will have to give up to get him. I can also imagine a scenario where I'm glad to see the Red Sox, for example, part with a great combination of ML and ML ready talent from their organization. Until we see Sale traded and see what that package is and then speculate as to whether or not the O's could have/should have topped it, we'll just have to stay frosty, I guess.

Well, yeah. And any deal that involves trading multiple guys for one guy is inherently risky, especially if those multiple guys are valuable. The flip side of this whole thing is that it'd be awesome to see the Red Sox trade away some useful pieces of their 25-man for Chris Sale, then find that Sale isn't nearly as effective as they hoped he'd be. You just never know with these kinds of deals.