Why can't we trade for Chris Sale?

[MurphDogg]

Who would be in favor of Bundy, Gausman, Harvey and Urrita for Sale? I would.

I would rather not decimate the entire farm system. You can't run a team with a reasonable price payroll without a handful of good young players making near the mimimum and that isn't possible when you trade all the team's prospects. If the Orioles were to make that trade and not win the World Series in the next couple years it would set the team back 5 years.

[LookinUp]

Didn't know that. I still would not be opposed of trading the organizations 3-4 best prospects for Sale.

That's a lot of eggs to put into one basket, two of which are likely to be significant contributors to the 2013 Orioles. You're adding one and taking away two. I think something like that could be defended.

I'd give up a ton for Chris Sale, so I'm not necessarily in the camp throughout this thread. I'd do everything I could not to include players helping this year though. So, instead of Gausman and Urrutia, I'd try to substitute something like Rodriguez, Hader and Delmonico. Add Bundy and Schoop (and probably Hoes), and that's a massive prospect haul but I still bet it's not enough for them to go for. I think they'd require something like you said (Gausman/Urrutia), and I wouldn't do that.

[waroriole]

Who would be in favor of Bundy, Gausman, Harvey and Urrita for Sale? I would.

Holy crap no.

[bt12483]

b) Angelos will allocate much more money than he currently does.

The fact that he doesn't allocate it doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

It is a matter of "want to" as Buck would say.

[calmunderfire]

I would rather not decimate the entire farm system. You can't run a team with a reasonable price payroll without a handful of good young players making near the mimimum and that isn't possible when you trade all the team's prospects. If the Orioles were to make that trade and not win the World Series in the next couple years it would set the team back 5 years.

What if, and this is very likely, our top 3-4 prospects fail to even produce 10+ WAR combined? It's possible. Chris Sale in all likelihood covers the value of our top prospects in 2 years. Most pitchers fail, that's been my experience with the O's.

[waroriole]

What if, and this is very likely, our top 3-4 prospects fail to even produce 10+ WAR combined? It's possible. Chris Sale in all likelihood covers the value of our top prospects in 2 years. Most pitchers fail, that's been my experience with the O's.

That's a poor excuse to advocate trading the farm for one SP. What if they were all worth at least 10 WAR each over the next 3-4 years. That's a very real possibility too.

[calmunderfire]

That's a poor excuse to advocate trading the farm for one SP. What if they were all worth at least 10 WAR each over the next 3-4 years. That's a very real possibility too.

Sure it is. You take on risks in trades, but it's more likely that Sale outproduces our top prospects alone.

[crissfan172]

That's a poor excuse to advocate trading the farm for one SP. What if they were all worth at least 10 WAR each over the next 3-4 years. That's a very real possibility too.

Especially for one with a throwing motion like Sale's. Very high risk to acquire someone like that for your best prospects.

[waroriole]

Sure it is. You take on risks in trades, but it's more likely that Sale outproduces our top prospects alone.

That's just like your opinion man.

[LookinUp]

I would rather not decimate the entire farm system. You can't run a team with a reasonable price payroll without a handful of good young players making near the mimimum and that isn't possible when you trade all the team's prospects. If the Orioles were to make that trade and not win the World Series in the next couple years it would set the team back 5 years.

I'd be willing to selectively decimate my farm system for a true Ace, but it would require other teams buying the hype of our guys that the OH likes (but I'm not quite as high on). That's the discretion of a GM. We can speculate, but DD has a much better feeling about the upside of guys like Hader, Delmonico, Rodriguez and Ohlman than we do.

For me, a guy like Hader is a great guy to trade. His stats and some reports look very impressive. Especially for a LH pitcher. He could possibly have real value to another team in a trade, but I personally think his chances of being a #3 or better pitcher are probably like 5%. Nice arm to have, but not one that I mind including in a deal. Delmonico will have a nice bat, but it's probably not an elite bat and he has no positional value. I'd part with him because I think you can find ML guys like that pretty regularly.

Rodriguez and Bundy would bother me, but maybe not for a guy like Sale.

[MurphDogg]

What if, and this is very likely, our top 3-4 prospects fail to even produce 10+ WAR combined? It's possible. Chris Sale in all likelihood covers the value of our top prospects in 2 years. Most pitchers fail, that's been my experience with the O's.

I don't think that is very likely. 2010 is the only year since 2008 where the Orioles top 4 prospects aren't likely to reach 10 WAR combined, though it still could happen with Britton, Arrieta and Matusz on that list. Wieters has already done that on his own, it seems likely Tillman and Machado will.

[calmunderfire]

I'd be willing to selectively decimate my farm system for a true Ace, but it would require other teams buying the hype of our guys that the OH likes (but I'm not quite as high on). That's the discretion of a GM. We can speculate, but DD has a much better feeling about the upside of guys like Hader, Delmonico, Rodriguez and Ohlman than we do.

For me, a guy like Hader is a great guy to trade. His stats and some reports look very impressive. Especially for a LH pitcher. He could possibly have real value to another team in a trade, but I personally think his chances of being a #3 or better pitcher are probably like 5%. Nice arm to have, but not one that I mind including in a deal. Delmonico will have a nice bat, but it's probably not an elite bat and he has no positional value. I'd part with him because I think you can find ML guys like that pretty regularly.

Rodriguez and Bundy would bother me, but maybe not for a guy like Sale.

I agree with you about decimating the farm. It's one thing to have quality prospects, but they are prospects. An ace is somebody who dominates at the MLB level and that's rare. Nobody cares about AAA.

[calmunderfire]

I don't think that is very likely. 2010 is the only year since 2008 where the Orioles top 4 prospects aren't likely to reach 10 WAR combined, though it still could happen with Britton, Arrieta and Matusz on that list. Wieters has already done that on his own, it seems likely Tillman and Machado will.

I don't consider Machado, Wieters and Tillman prospects anymore because they are proven MLB players. You can make the point that they once were prospects which is true. Hitting prospects are MUCH less of a risk than pitchers. Dealing some guy who's never been in the MLB or has failed miserably while there for a short stint is a prospect. And if they are pitchers I wouldn't mind trading them.

[olehippi]

Considering he is only 24 with a very high upside still, I think he would cost us Gausman or Bundy along with Schoop at the least. DD will not give Gaus or Bundy up and they are our only 2 really attractive pieces for other teams.

Considering the fact that Bundy just had Tommy John surgery in June and probably can't pitch for the next 12-14 months. And add to that the possibility that he may never be the same pitcher he was before the surgery. So, yes, I would trade Bundy and Schoop for Chris Sale in a heartbeat.

Of course the problem is......the White Sox won't. They will want - and get - much much more. Just not from us.

[tntoriole]

Considering the fact that Bundy just had Tommy John surgery in June and probably can't pitch for the next 12-14 months. And add to that the possibility that he may never be the same pitcher he was before the surgery. So, yes, I would trade Bundy and Schoop for Chris Sale in a heartbeat.

Of course the problem is......the White Sox won't. They will want - and get - much much more. Just not from us.

Which is why we have to focus on continuing to build the depth and quality of our system. Rays and Red Sox systems are significantly ahead of ours and we need to not shoot the moon and break the bank just for the possibility of a single season victory.