So why hasn't Brob been traded?

[Baroquen131]

"I cannot forecast to you the action of [MacPhail]. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is [the Baltimore Orioles'] interest."

[Delduck]

Here is a line from the OP..."Sometimes I get tired of hearing all the conjecture and "predictions" from our "insiders" when often the only thing that comes true is them calling the trade an hour before it happens."

The reason we are ticked is because we hear this all the time from people. The bottom line is, if you don't want to hear "rumors" or "predictions" and talk about them in a fun and mature way, then just sit back and wait for your precious little ESPN to run the story on the bottom of their screen. Why come on here and cry about a "so-called" false headline? If you don't like it here, then don't come back. That's why we get nasty. This is OUR hangout, the place we waste away hours a day. So we take it personally when people bash it. Again, as I said many, MANY times yesterday, Tony would have taken the story down if he didn't fully believe his sources to be 100% accurate. If you don't like that answer, then I'm sorry!

1st off you have nothing to be sorry for. I had this long post typed out defending myself because I felt, and still do, most of your post was attacking me. But then my 3rd cup of coffee kicked in and and I reread his op and I can see where you guys are coming from. It was a bit more condemning the I had original took it. But I still question why a lot of guys post nasty replies, instead of ignoring or question why the person feels that way and turning what could be an other wise very good poster around. There are a lot of good ideas floated around this place that get dismissed with rude posts because some of the high rep guys don't agree. And if people don't want to get with the program Tony and the rest will soon take out the trash.

[JakeeO]

The new homepage headline is much more accurate. I agree that yesterday's was a bit misleading or premature because it stated that absolutely Roberts had been traded. It should have been a bit more tempered -- "Sources say Brian Roberts has been traded to Cubs."

(And you might want to make the current headline a little more active, "Orioles deny Roberts trade." Just a thought from a guy who has written a lot of headlines.)

[TheWHG]

I doubt this whole incident could have been handled any better. Many sites would have deleated threads and pulled the headline and tried to act like this never happened. There has been no back peddling, or attempt to rewrite history here. I'm sure Tony and crew have taken a bashing from many directions over this, but have had the professionalism and integrity to let events remain as posted, warts and all.

One more thing, I have gained a ton of respect for many of the long time posters on here the past few days. The publicity brought about by all of this has led to a rash of first time postings from "outsiders" with no agenda but to bash the HO in a rude and insulting manner. On most chat boards they would have been blasted with insults and profanity, or else banned instantly and their postings deleated, but such jabs here have gotten them nothing but intelligent rebutal and mature restraint, and they quickly go away. Makes this old man proud to be an Orioles fan and HO member! Keep up the good work folks!

That is not true. If you read the headline this morning, it said that the Roberts trade was 100% done.

When a report came from Roch and the Baltimore Sun that Andy MacPhail called the trade rumor highly inaccurate, Tony did not change the original message, but just added a line underneath his claim from his sources that this was a done deal.

Now if you read that headline, it doesn't read anything like it did this morning.

This is the current post:

Roberts Trade Denied by Orioles (completely different from Roberts trade a done deal)

By: Tony Pente 1/9/2008

Several sources have indicated that the trade of All-Star second baseman Brian Roberts to the Cubs has been finalized. However, the Orioles have denied this rumor and have called it "inaccurate." (different from a source within the organization and one outside of is call this deal 100% done.)

The early reports indicated that the Orioles would get back 22-year old right-hander pitching prospect Sean Gallagher, 25-year old left-handed starting pitcher Sean Marshall, and 24-year old shortstop Ronny Cedeno. (This is different as well, saying that this was the exact return for Roberts).

Latest Update (10:45 PM): The Orioles continue to deny this report and as of 10:45 PM no announcement has been made. Although our sources were solid, there is certainly a possibility the players in return could be different or that the deal was not as "final" as we were told. (If you report that a deal is done for players mentioned, but the deal is held up because the players mentioned might be different, well, the trade obviously is not done.)

There is a lot of traction to this story, but Andy MacPhail is playing his cards very closely on this one. I still believe the basis of the story, but the players reported in the trade coming back may be different. (MacPhail is playing no cards. His statements have always remained the same.)

I think we'll see a resolution to this shortly, but it may not be in the time we'd all like to see.

More to come as it develops.....

So perhaps if the headline this morning read:

"Roberts deal to Cubs very close: Several sources OH trusts are stating that the return for Roberts would be Sean Marshall, Sean Gallagher, and Ronny Cedeno. While we believe this deal is near completion, we are waiting for confirmation from club officials."

You wouldn't have people "complaining." What's with the inferiority complex around this place?

The issue is, this story was reported as fact, not a rumor. The word rumor, possible, might, did not appear in that headline or the story contained under it.

[wildcard]

If you are tired of the rumors then it is your own fault. Don't blame anyone else. If you stick to the newspapers, you will get reports that are more accurate though they too still have their spin. (Well, Harry Truman may tell you differently) You will also get a whole lot more silence. If you like a quiet off season, stick with the newspapers.

The Hangout and its insiders give the O's fans almost daily chatter on what might be. Is mostly third hand information and a ton of speculation and should be treated as such. If you think that McPhail shares what he is thinking with an agent or a lower level employee then think again. That would not be in his best interest.

People do a lot of reading of the tea leaves here. It is interesting, but not always accurate. Accepting it without some level of filtering can be misleading. However on many occasions the rumors turn out to based on some facts. Also if there is O's news anywhere is the country you will see it here with a link. Its one stop shopping for everything about the O's.

Caution though, its addictive.

[The Azman]

In the Chicago area yesterday, all the Chicago arm-chair skeptics out there were calling for the Cubs GM's head saying it was a bad deal for the team, all the Chicago talk-radio shows yesterday were buzzing the trade announcement here and the denials in the front office. It will make for a very entertaining day to say the least!

[Frobby]

Most of the posters responding to your post here completely misunderstood you. This has nothing to do with patience or trusting insiders. It has to do with professional journalism. Tony posted the trade as fact, not conjecture. RShack missed that point. The trade has not been verified as fact by any other media outlet or by the FO. It is only a scoop if it is true. It may be true, but it hasn't been verified. The professional thing to do is to remove the article or rewrite it completely. The OH took a leap and crossed a boundary that should not have been crossed: conjecture from "insiders" (whom I do not doubt have sources somehow connected) to published fact. A published article must be secure in its sources, completely confident. Keep in mind what Herbstreit experienced when he reported that Les Miles was gone to Mich. This has nothing to do with reading and enjoying what the insiders clue us into, this has to do with how far we accept it. Also, Bigbird has said that this deal, from his source inside the warehouse, is not done (as of late yesterday). Pact's post has nothing to do with patience for news, but how that news is reported, and what news is reported as fact.

I think that, in hindsight, Tony probably wishes he had either stayed on the sidelines until a deal was announced, or that he had phrased his original story and headline a bit differently. But let's not turn this into the Janet Cooke affair.* Orioles Hangout is not the Baltimore Sun or ESPN. It is a fan website. Its publisher is not a trained journalist, he is a passionate fan with good contacts in the Orioles organization who has a full time job working for the U.S. military. I'm disappointed that his story got my hopes up and was possibly premature, but to call him "unprofessional" is over the top.

* Janet Cooke, for those who don't know, was a Washington Post reporter who won a Pultizer Prize for a feature story, reported as fact, that later was shown to have been entirely made up by her.

[Flosman]

Actually I think we are getting jumpy because we have a decent GM finally. He is willing to play brinksmanship all the way to the end. He knows we are not contenders and there is probably nothing that AM can do to change that this season. From AM's position the passage of time helps him and he is waiting for teams to take the jump at adding a allstar level player to make that final push. I really think we like to judge his actions too quickly and i think that is human nature. I highly doubt Bedard or Roberts are on the opening day roster, but I think AM is going to make other teams think he just might do that. I suspect he will find deals he likes but it is simply going to take longer than we like. Alot of the regulars on here wanted a total rebuild, while it is obvious that is what we are going to get. The blow it up crowd should be estatic even if they will have to wait a while to see the project come to competion. This is a very different type of offseason than we are used to. Atleast we are not talking about if some millar type gets us close to the WC next season.

[Delduck]

Well, I doubt most of us would start a thread to make this sort of post. What exactly was the point of the thread? He is asking "what happened", right? Well, isn't that what is being discussed in every other thread on this board? Wouldn't five minutes of research make it clear that nobody really knows what is happening right now? Why is it acceptable to be lazy?

There is a search function on this board and it is quite easy to use. If someone wants to know what is going on but doesn't want to read through the threads, they should spend 5 minutes doing advanced searches for the latest posts by Belkast, Peace21, BigBird, Sonny76, and/or TonyOH. This would tell them what they need to know.

Someone getting annoyed and starting a thread that basically amounts to whining about how things aren't the way they want them to be and whining to be fed information is fairly frustrating to the rest of us grown ups. I saw three new ones this morning when I logged in and it just torques me up. Sorry, but that is the way I feel.

I am sorry but you are talking more along the lines of 45 min. to an hour to go through these threads to even to begin to get a grasp of what is going on. This is another thing that bugs me. When a topic is spread out over 2 -4 threads with 8 - 15+ pages each and someone asks for the Readers Digest version, guys get all upset and tell them to "do some research" . Not everyone has the time to sit here for an hour, hour and a half to get caught up.

And being rude and whining because they don't post the way you want them to makes you a grown up?? I am sorry but the elitist attitude around here is about the only negative around here. All the SR. posters around here are very intelligent and the information passed around this place is truly awesome, but dang it does not give them or anyone a free pass to belittle their posts and make them feel small. I know it is easier to belittle a post then try to see where the poster is coming from and maybe point out why you feel their post is flawed and help them with it. That is what a grown up would do.

[BMann]

I emailed about half a dozen of my not-so-'net-savvy buddies yesterday with this news - I never reveal where I get my "scoops" so they think I actually have a source in the warehouse.

Of course, now the problem for me is, if this trade doesn't happen, it's my credibility that's damaged! My pals will roll their eyes next time I send them Big O's News like this. I'm sure I can sue someone over this irreparable damage that's been done to my reputation!

OR... I could step back and realize we're talking about our favorite baseball team, not the presidential election or the latest events in Iraq! It's all for fun, folks! Sure, it's a little disappointing that the trade hasn't been confirmed yet, and some slightly less definitive wording might've been appropriate ("trade is CLOSE" over "trade is DONE") but let's not get too bent out of shape over it...

I say please keep those rumors coming!

[Dipper9]

1st off you have nothing to be sorry for. I had this long post typed out defending myself because I felt, and still do, most of your post was attacking me. But then my 3rd cup of coffee kicked in and and I reread his op and I can see where you guys are coming from. It was a bit more condemning the I had original took it. But I still question why a lot of guys post nasty replies, instead of ignoring or question why the person feels that way and turning what could be an other wise very good poster around. There are a lot of good ideas floated around this place that get dismissed with rude posts because some of the high rep guys don't agree. And if people don't want to get with the program Tony and the rest will soon take out the trash.

I was in no way shape or form attacking you, and again I apologize if you took it that way. My main point is that SOME new people come on here and as soon as inside information does not pan out, they immediately resort to bashing insiders. In this case, its not even an insider we're talking about. Its the MAN himself who owns this website. We who have been around here a while know Tony is credible. He was not posting something based on heresay from "insiders." He posted it based on info he got himself that he deemed credible. But enough of that, Tony can defend himself.

As for your comment about new posters, I more than anyone respect the opinions of everyone on here, and I have no less respect for new people than I do for the vets. However, if someone says something I disagree with, as the OP did, I will call them out on it, whether its someone's first post or SG's 50,000th! But again, I hold no grudge towards you NOR the OP. I am just making my opinion known (as is the point of a fan message board.)

[Oscar]

Well, I doubt most of us would start a thread to make this sort of post. What exactly was the point of the thread? He is asking "what happened", right? Well, isn't that what is being discussed in every other thread on this board? Wouldn't five minutes of research make it clear that nobody really knows what is happening right now? Why is it acceptable to be lazy?

There is a search function on this board and it is quite easy to use. If someone wants to know what is going on but doesn't want to read through the threads, they should spend 5 minutes doing advanced searches for the latest posts by Belkast, Peace21, BigBird, Sonny76, and/or TonyOH. This would tell them what they need to know.

Someone getting annoyed and starting a thread that basically amounts to whining about how things aren't the way they want them to be and whining to be fed information is fairly frustrating to the rest of us grown ups. I saw three new ones this morning when I logged in and it just torques me up. Sorry, but that is the way I feel.

Did you go off on all of those like you went off on this one? You do know you don't have to open up every thread on the topic, don't you? It might help your BP a little.

FWItsW, this thread seems like a reasonable topic that should be able to be discussed without flying off the handle; if not, one might think about moving on to a different one.

p.s. Is Roberts stil here?

[laxtonto]

After sleeping on this whole thing i had an idea..... For the entire offseason the FO has said or implied that they wanted to move Bedard first. So they work dilligently at it and for the most part have a deal in place and decide to make sure they can still get what they want from the Cubs. Well, low and behold the Reds finally come charging bask into the Bedard race with the current deal mentioned by Sherril from Prospect Insider, which once again puts the BRob deal on hold.....

Bailey, Cueto, Votto and Encrnacion for Bedard and Mora and Cash...

Would require a MLB rubber stamp, and might make the less pitching dependant for BRob and need more postion players instead? That or just another conspiracy theory or im finally going Nutz from all the trade talk

[amateurfan]

And yet another person who just wants to bash the people in charge and doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. Tony got independent confirmation from two different circles of baseball before announcing this trade on the front page. He didn't get his information from the insiders on this board so you're completely off base. That is good enough for any paper in the world. My advice to you would be to know what you're talking about before you come on here tearing up people for a lack of "journalistic integrity".

You are way off base here. This, along with the other posts of yours in this thread reveal characteristics you yourself have admonished others against. Tony did not state who his sources were, and from what other baseball circles they were from. Furthermore, that article was written in a way that led all who read this to believe that they were the "insiders" here. Apparently, it isn't good enough for any paper in the world, because no paper published that Roberts had been traded. Perhaps you should get your facts straight. Think about why it is that no paper published it, and how the rest of the baseball community is looking at our site.

Also, your implication that people who don't read every single post in every thread are not grown-ups is completely ignorant. While not directly criticizing others, which I believe is against the rules here, you did it in a very backhanded manner by pumping your "adult" status up. Aren't you clever.

The fact is, the OH crossed a line yesterday from perpetuating rumors on the message board, which is fun and engaging, to taking those rumors and publishing them as fact. Go back and read yesterday's article.

[RustyMcNail]

Maybe Cindy prevailed on AM to cancel the trade?