So why hasn't Brob been traded?

[Frobby]

I think you are misreading his post again Tony. He's not saying you did anything wrong in posting the report you got from the sources, but that the national and local media outlets that reported the story as being done basing it on the OH were being a tad irresponsible.

Yes, that is what the poster was talking about. And he's right. No matter how reliable the OH's sources might be, a major media outlet should be reporting based on its own sources, not based on what OH is saying.

[TheWHG]

What's not true?

You stated that Tony did not backpedal from his original story, that some other places would have removed the headline. Well, Tony did exactly that. The headline is different than it was yesterday morning, and the whole article is worded differently.

The fact that the front page story has been updated this morning in no way negates what I said! The original headline with a foot note ran all day yesterday and Tony I'm sure spent the day trying to get to the bottom of things.

Again, read what I was referring to in your post. And as far as Tony's diligence to get to the bottom of the story, I never questioned that. I believe Tony would not post something if he wasn't convinced to his core that what he was hearing from his sources was 100% true.

Today's cover story is an explanation of why and how things have played out thus far.

Today's cover story/headline is completely different from the original headline. So in a sense, the original headline was removed as you claimed it was not.

This site is not the ESPN site, or the Baltimore Sun site, or any other news gathering agency! It is a fan site where Orioles fans gather to discuss and debate everything Orioles. If you popped in here looking for the latest headlines your in the wrong place. If you want to voice some valid criticism why not go to ESPN's site or the Chicago newspaper site that ran with this story yesterday? That is their job one, to report confirmed news stories from valid sources, not pass on rumors from blogs and chat sites.

The Baltimore Sun, Chicago Tribune, ESPN, and RotoWorld never took Tony's story and ran with it. None of them stated this was a done deal and in fact stated that the Orioles were denying this rumor. Again, Tony was not reporting this as a rumor, he was reporting it as a fact based on what he learned from what he considered honest and reliable sources. It is a shame that those sources turned out to be wrong. I do not blame Tony for being incorrect. I merely question posting something as a fact before having any concrete confirmation from the most important source, the baseball team in question.

I didn't come to OH (which you call "HO" btw, you should really watch your language ) for the latest headlines. I came here because the OH profiles a lot of the Orioles minor leaguers whereas the more major websites out there do not. There are also some very knowledgeable posters here and I check in to see what they have to say from time to time. When I saw Tony's headline, I immediately went to ESPN, RotoWorld, and the Sun to see what they were stating. Immediately Roch Kubatko posted that the Orioles told him this story was highly inaccurate. Since ESPN and Rotoworld had not posted anything at that time, I considered the story at least very questionable. A "no comment" from Andy MacPhail or the Orioles would have done a lot more to convince me that at least something was in the works at the time.

While some were flattered by the attention this brought to the HO yesterday, I for one saw it as another example of how unprofessional national and local news sources have become when the writers surf the web and quote as fact things they learn from blogs, chat boards and rumor sites! We who frequent the HO know the the first rule is, "take all rumors with a grain of salt!"

Well, I didn't see it that way. There is a lot of anticipation for this rebuilding effort this year and fans are excited to see just who the new Orioles are going to be. This story Tony posted created a lot of conversation on OH and also spilled over to ESPN. As far as the local or national media is concerned, I really don't know what you are talking about. Roch Kubatko (the Sun) never stated what Tony said was a fact. ESPN never reported on it, and RotoWorld basically said the same thing that Roch Kubatko said. The writer from the Chicago Tribune said that a deal COULD be done by as soon as Wednesday after stating that the talks have heated up between the Orioles and the Cubs, but he never said it was a done deal. Again, Tony never stated his story was a rumor. He was presenting it on a fact to which he thought he had good evidence to support it as such. I think this is what is confusing/upsetting some people.

I apologize if I seem critical of you Tony, I know you were doing what you thought was right. But I think everyone here should learn something from this experience.

How about that Nick Markakis?

[TonySoprano]

To those who criticize what other media outlets may or may not have reported, here's some food for thought.

VERO BEACH — The Baltimore Orioles have signed an option agreement with Indian River County to replace the Los Angeles Dodgers at Dodgertown, a source with knowledge of the situation confirmed to Scripps Treasure Coast Newspapers on Wednesday.

Orioles officials did not return calls seeking comment Wednesday. Indian River County Administrator Joe Baird repeatedly has declined to name the team, citing economic development reasons that protect him from having to report information about the negotiations.

"I have an option agreement with a Major League Baseball team, where I can only speak to that particular team," Baird said Wednesday.

Source - Florida Today

Based on only one source, this story is reported as fact but no confirmation from the Orioles has been obtained.

[Tony-OH]

What's not true?

You stated that Tony did not backpedal from his original story, that some other places would have removed the headline. Well, Tony did exactly that. The headline is different than it was yesterday morning, and the whole article is worded differently.

The fact that the front page story has been updated this morning in no way negates what I said! The original headline with a foot note ran all day yesterday and Tony I'm sure spent the day trying to get to the bottom of things.

Again, read what I was referring to in your post. And as far as Tony's diligence to get to the bottom of the story, I never questioned that. I believe Tony would not post something if he wasn't convinced to his core that what he was hearing from his sources was 100% true.

Today's cover story is an explanation of why and how things have played out thus far.

Today's cover story/headline is completely different from the original headline. So in a sense, the original headline was removed as you claimed it was not.

This site is not the ESPN site, or the Baltimore Sun site, or any other news gathering agency! It is a fan site where Orioles fans gather to discuss and debate everything Orioles. If you popped in here looking for the latest headlines your in the wrong place. If you want to voice some valid criticism why not go to ESPN's site or the Chicago newspaper site that ran with this story yesterday? That is their job one, to report confirmed news stories from valid sources, not pass on rumors from blogs and chat sites.

The Baltimore Sun, Chicago Tribune, ESPN, and RotoWorld never took Tony's story and ran with it. None of them stated this was a done deal and in fact stated that the Orioles were denying this rumor. Again, Tony was not reporting this as a rumor, he was reporting it as a fact based on what he learned from what he considered honest and reliable sources. It is a shame that those sources turned out to be wrong. I do not blame Tony for being incorrect. I merely question posting something as a fact before having any concrete confirmation from the most important source, the baseball team in question.

I didn't come to OH (which you call "HO" btw, you should really watch your language ) for the latest headlines. I came here because the OH profiles a lot of the Orioles minor leaguers whereas the more major websites out there do not. There are also some very knowledgeable posters here and I check in to see what they have to say from time to time. When I saw Tony's headline, I immediately went to ESPN, RotoWorld, and the Sun to see what they were stating. Immediately Roch Kubatko posted that the Orioles told him this story was highly inaccurate. Since ESPN and Rotoworld had not posted anything at that time, I considered the story at least very questionable. A "no comment" from Andy MacPhail or the Orioles would have done a lot more to convince me that at least something was in the works at the time.

While some were flattered by the attention this brought to the HO yesterday, I for one saw it as another example of how unprofessional national and local news sources have become when the writers surf the web and quote as fact things they learn from blogs, chat boards and rumor sites! We who frequent the HO know the the first rule is, "take all rumors with a grain of salt!"

Well, I didn't see it that way. There is a lot of anticipation for this rebuilding effort this year and fans are excited to see just who the new Orioles are going to be. This story Tony posted created a lot of conversation on OH and also spilled over to ESPN. As far as the local or national media is concerned, I really don't know what you are talking about. Roch Kubatko (the Sun) never stated what Tony said was a fact. ESPN never reported on it, and RotoWorld basically said the same thing that Roch Kubatko said. The writer from the Chicago Tribune said that a deal COULD be done by as soon as Wednesday after stating that the talks have heated up between the Orioles and the Cubs, but he never said it was a done deal. Again, Tony never stated his story was a rumor. He was presenting it on a fact to which he thought he had good evidence to support it as such. I think this is what is confusing/upsetting some people.

I apologize if I seem critical of you Tony, I know you were doing what you thought was right. But I think everyone here should learn something from this experience.

How about that Nick Markakis?

No problem at all. We learn things everyday and like any journalist, you learn who you can trust and who you have check up on through addititional sources. The guys who gave me the information thought their information was 100 percent. I don't think they were lying or making things up so it comes down to something changed. What changed or why they changed are the open questions.

[Cakes2Kakes]

I reread your post and apologize, I misread it. It's been a long 24 hours..Sorry.

Apology accepted!

Please disregard my prior post, (I'm a slow typist and missed this one).

Dude I'm on your side here!!!

I wouldn't have gotten so upset if I didn't respect the heck out of you and all you've created here my friend!

[osfan83]

To those who criticize what other media outlets may or may not have reported, here's some food for thought.

Source - Florida Today

Based on only one source, this story is reported as fact but no confirmation from the Orioles has been obtained.

And that is sloppy and misleading. Doesn't mean it wasn't true, just sloppy and misleading.

[LookinUp]

Tony,

Thanks for everything you and the insiders do on this site. We love it!

Others,

Please move on. The points have been made.

[amateurfan]

Are you even thinking about what you're writing here? Not everyone has the same sources. When the NY Times releases a story that isn't released by the NY Post or Gazette or whatever, it usually isn't because they didn't believe the story. It is because they didn't have sources telling them the info like the Times. You have zero idea what you're talking about here. Zero

This isn't even close to what I wrote. You know it and I know it.

"Someone getting annoyed and starting a thread that basically amounts to whining about how things aren't the way they want them to be and whining to be fed information is fairly frustrating to the rest of us grown ups. I saw three new ones this morning when I logged in and it just torques me up. Sorry, but that is the way I feel."

This is what you wrote. It was demeaning and elitist. It was also backhanded. You know it and I know it.

It is irrelevant that every media have the same sources. What matters is that those sources check out. Yesterday, unfortunately, Tony's sources did not check out. Also, many different outlets report the same story, which is just as critical to your argument. No other paper reported the trade as final. This indicates very strongly, that the trade was not finalized. Were thinking about what you were saying?

[amateurfan]

Tony, I want to be very clear about why I'm stating here what I've been writing this morning. It would be very easy to write about this at many different message boards for the orioles. The reason for posting here is because of this site's value. I'm not a sycophant like many others here. You made your own bed yesterday and you are lying in it now. Whatever criticism I have about the way you went about your sources is minor in comparison to how the story shakes out. You published an article, not just for OH, which you know full well, that turned out not to be accurate. That's for you and your sources. (VaTech is claiming that you stated your sources. I have read no where that you did this. Can you please provide that information again?) I'm sorry for you that it happened that way.

As for the red herring bit - it was a red herring. So, too, was your response that it was not a red herring but baseball. That is misleading and not constructive to the discussion. You can't change what it is.

For those who think I'm just here to criticize, check out my other posts. I've never bashed an insider or the board or the site. This is not about liking or disliking the site. It's about having a discussion.

[sevens]

SO,,,

Any news on the Roberts trade front ?????

I kid I kid

[Delduck]

I disagree completely with this post. It would take less than 5 minutes to do the search on the pertinent names.

Look, I expressed my feelings about the subject. I don't believe I'm being elitist by expecting others to do make just a little bit of effort. People either want the information or they don't. Expecting it to provided for them when it is readily available is a bit much IMO. Either way, no skin off my back.

Oh you are correct it take less then 5 min. to see what a single poster posted, but to get everything into context so you understand what is going on you have to weed through those threads, and that takes time to weed through over 800 replies in just the two main threads from yesterday. I don't think anyone is really expecting to spoon feed them, but is just simply asking for someone to that has the time help them get caught up. Now if they complain because no one is helping, then they deserved to be put in their place.

And what is so wrong with someone wanting to get caught up on 800 replies worth of info by asking for a readers digest version?? Not everyone has 25 30 min. every couple hours or so to get caught up, he may have 5 min. or so 2 - 3 times a day. And the elitist comment is just not confined to this thread nor is it specifically directed towards you. It is an over all under lying attitude around here. We all want good intelligent posters, and sometime those guys are noobs and because they don't have 1500 posts or 5 billion rep points they get dismissed very quickly or are completely ignored.

Well this is getting off topic, and I invite you to carry this on by PM if you so choose.

[TheWHG]

Well, all I can say is thank goodness we have you here to help us learn. With your vast knowledge on how things should be done, I would open my own site if I were you.

I'm not typically this nasty, but it drives me crazy that we have a few people who pop in here and want to be critics all of a sudden. Especially people with very little background here. That doesn't mean I don't think new people should have an opinion, but coming in here and questioning the basics of the leadership as someone's first major input to the board is pretty over-the-top IMHO. I'm surprised some of you are surprised that this criticism hasn't been met with open arms, especially when a large part of the criticism is based on inaccurate information.

I'll write it one last time. There was nothing done wrong here yesterday IMO. Confirmation by the clubs and/or league wasn't going to happen until after the trade was done via press release. Tony reported it as "sources" from the go and put up a thread indicating the FO denial soon after.

What happened yesterday was that two independent sources turned out to be overstepping IMHO. The only thing to be learned is that these sources may not be as solid as initially thought, again, IMHO.

This wasn't my first post here and if you or anyone else is under the impression that you have learned all there is in life, then you are sadly mistaken.

I may not have an extensive background here, but not like that proves anything at all anyway. But, if you want some sort of background for me I have been a long time poster on the ESPN message board under this same handle. I also happen to have studied journalism and English as majors in college.

I would love to open up my own site, but I realize while I have strong opinions and love the sport of baseball, I don't have the contacts or the depth of knowledge about all things Orioles I would need to run such a site. It wouldn't be as in depth as I would like it to be. It would just be a random collection of my thoughts on things related to the Orioles. To me, that doesn't seem like a great premise to open my own site.

When did I ever question Tony's leadership? I was protecting another poster's right to have an opinion here, backed up his opinions with my own thoughts, and since you asked my opinion of what I thought should be done, I offered it. Now you claim that I am criticizing the leadership of the OH? How do you leap to that conclusion based on anything I have written here?

I didn't say Tony did anything wrong, just that his headline might have been better off written yesterday like it is written today. Today's headline is an excellently written article.

"What happened yesterday was that two independent sources turned out to be overstepping IMHO. The only thing to be learned is that these sources may not be as solid as initially thought, again, IMHO."

Have I stated anything differently? Obviously those sources were not correct. Should I blame Tony for that or should anyone else? As I have sated before, I do not think so.

If you don't like my posts, that is fine. You are entitled to your opinion, but your criticisms of what I am stating are incorrect.

[NCRaven]

To those who criticize what other media outlets may or may not have reported, here's some food for thought.

Source - Florida Today

Based on only one source, this story is reported as fact but no confirmation from the Orioles has been obtained.

True, but they did attempt to contact the Orioles and published the fact that:

1. They only have a single source, and

2. That they have been unable to confirm the story with the Orioles.

That is exactly how they should have handled the story. I have no problem with it from a journalistic point of view, whatsoever.

[Dipper9]

We certainly can be a News source sometimes. WE report news both major and minor league just like anyone else out there. If it's on our front pages it certainly could be our reports.

This report apparently changed after I was told by TWO different sources it was 100 percent done. I don't know about you, but 100 percent to me means it's going to happen. However, I still put Sources indicates...in the news to make sure people knew this came from multiple sources and not an offical trade announcement.

Did I think the trade was final? Absolutely. did it apparently change after being 100 percent, sure does look that way. I have no problem taking heat for the report. My sources were apparently not 100 percent when they told me they were or something changed after the fact. Hopefully I will find out the truth when this all shakes out. We try pretty dang hard to get things straght and I almost never run anything on the front unless I'm certain. In this case it didn't work out.

I am just as curious as everyone to see how this shakes out, but I will say this. If this WAS an Orioles driven conspiracy to burn Tony and the rest of us at the Hangout, then the Orioles have just alienated the remaining few true Die Hard fans they have left. I'm not much on conspiracy theories, but there sure is something strange about this whole thing. I just hope to God the Orioles have not done something like that to Tony and the OH!

[BillySmith]

There's no way anyone would do that to Tony. Tony has worked hard to make this a great site and from all accounts he has the respect of just about everyone connected to Orioles baseball. If Tony spoke to two sources he knows, you can rest assured neither one would do anything to hurt him or this site.

On the other hand, someone messed with Belkast, and bb has said the FO is looking at the HO and is concerned about leaks (I'm pretty sure that's accurate).

Personally, if I'm AM, I want to find those leaks and fix them. While we like it for our own purposes, it's bad if they are coming from people employed by the team.