Joey Votto Critical of Davis Saying the HR Record Is 61

[crissfan172]

How could anyone consider 73 the record? Honestly please share your reasoning. How is someone cheating suddenly cobsidered legit? Thats like me having 2 aces up my sleeve at the final table of the world series of poker and still being considered champion even though every knew I had aces up my sleeve that were used directly to beat my competition. Theres no reasonable argument anyone can make againt 61 being the real recors.

It's pretty simple. In 2001, Barry Bonds hit the ball over the fence 73 times facing pitchers that were on equal footing (i.e. also on steroids). No amount of wishing it didn't happen is going to change that.

Once again...trying to erase history is stupid.

[brianod]

It's pretty simple. In 2001, Barry Bonds hit the ball over the fence 73 times facing pitchers that were on equal footing (i.e. also on steroids). No amount of wishing it didn't happen is going to change that.

Once again...trying to erase history is stupid.

maybe. But rooting for a player who isn't cheating to beat the record of a player who did cheat is the American way. Go Chris Go!

[crissfan172]

maybe. But rooting for a player who isn't cheating to beat the record of a player who did cheat is the American way. Go Chris Go!

Absolutely. If people want to be happy that he beat Maris, by all means...be happy. If people want to take the record away from Bonds, though, then I will always strongly disagree....and I can't stand Bonds.

[markakis4pres]

It's pretty simple. In 2001, Barry Bonds hit the ball over the fence 73 times facing pitchers that were on equal footing (i.e. also on steroids). No amount of wishing it didn't happen is going to change that.

Once again...trying to erase history is stupid.

I see both sides to the argument and really no one is wrong with their opinion.

Personally, I don't think Bonds record should stand, which is a shame because he was a damn good player early on.

But with that said, it is impossible to figure out who was and was not cheating...including the pitchers.

I agree with Davis and honestly it was selfish of Votto to call him out on an opinion. He was asked a question and answered honestly, give some respect Votto as I just lost a lot for you.

If you got caught cheating the game, your records should not stand.

[luismatos4prez]

It's pretty simple. In 2001, Barry Bonds hit the ball over the fence 73 times facing pitchers that were on equal footing (i.e. also on steroids). No amount of wishing it didn't happen is going to change that.

Once again...trying to erase history is stupid.

Lance Armstrong rode his bike faster than everyone else 7 times.

Reggie Bush received more votes than anyone else for Heisman Trophy.

USC football won the national championship in 2004.

Kentucky basketball won the national championship last year.

Those aren't officially recognized because they had some advantage that they shouldn't have gotten.

[crissfan172]

Lance Armstrong rode his bike faster than everyone else 7 times.

Reggie Bush received more votes than anyone else for Heisman Trophy.

USC football won the national championship in 2004.

Kentucky basketball won the national championship last year.

Those aren't officially recognized because they had some advantage that they shouldn't have gotten.

Yes...trying to erase history is stupid. Giving examples of other people doing it doesn't make it right.

NCAA is the worst because no on-field advantages actually occur.

With Lance Armstrong, pretty much everyone in the competition was doping.

Again...it's just stupid.

[markakis4pres]

Lance Armstrong rode his bike faster than everyone else 7 times.

Reggie Bush received more votes than anyone else for Heisman Trophy.

USC football won the national championship in 2004.

Kentucky basketball won the national championship last year.

Those aren't officially recognized because they had some advantage that they shouldn't have gotten.

Yeah it is pretty telling that Armstrong was stripped of his medals for cheating.

This approach needs to be taken.

[Mondo Trasho]

How could anyone consider 73 the record? Honestly please share your reasoning. How is someone cheating suddenly cobsidered legit? Thats like me having 2 aces up my sleeve at the final table of the world series of poker and still being considered champion even though every knew I had aces up my sleeve that were used directly to beat my competition. Theres no reasonable argument anyone can make againt 61 being the real recors.

Lots of people were "cheating". It wasn't really cheating in the normal sense of the term either. It wasn't like people were tipping pitches or using aluminum bats or something.

And Bonds got the record playing 81 games in one of the hardest ball parks to hit in.

I don't like Bonds, I think he was a sellout in the worst way. But I really don't care about the steroids. And Joey Votto sounds jealous.

[markakis4pres]

Yes...trying to erase history is stupid. Giving examples of other people doing it doesn't make it right.

NCAA is the worst because no on-field advantages actually occur.

With Lance Armstrong, pretty much everyone in the competition was doping.

Again...it's just stupid.

Maybe or maybe not, that is all conjecture. What was proven though was that he cheated and he was caught.

Agree about the NCAA thing though, that is off the field issues.

[murph]

Make the best if it no matter how many rules you have to break or who gets hurt, huh? That's the ends justifies the means and it seems to be rampant in society not just baseball.

It's me first, either come along for the ride or you'll get left behind.

I repped this comment before I read the rest of the thread. I don't want to start up another argument, but I think this was poignant. Whether it hurts the players or not it should not happen, the use of PED's. The work you put in should justify the end. Not the other way around.

[Col. Claypool]

MLB cannot erase what Bonds and Sosa did to Maris' record, nor what Bonds did to Aaron's. Obviously, erasing numbers opens up an almost endless can of worms. It's impossible to pretend that they never happened. So, I say just put the * back on Maris' 61, add one to Aaron's 755 and call them the officially recognized records. This would go for any other records held by known PED cheats. The other numbers counted for the games in which they occurred and are part of the overall history of the game, but nothing more.

[El Gordo]

I can understand why a player on PED's would defend Bond's record. He tells himself it's no big deal compared to the skill required to square the ball up. I can't understand why a player not on PED's would go out of his way to defend Bonds and attack Davis.

[BobbyWoontz]

The steroid era of baseball was/is unfortunate, but it's in the record books and there's no changing that. For Davis' sake, if he hits 62 I hope he doesn't try to crown himself or anything. Bonds is the champ, for better or worse.

Well, if he hits 62 he'll get the American League HR crown, at least.

[birdcrazy]

This is a no win for Davis. Despite zero evidence, people already accuse him of doping. If he goes out and says that Barry's record is legit, people will say he thinks using performance enhancing drugs to set records is okay. The flip side is, if he says Maris's number is the record and tries to take a stand that steroids are wrong, he looks like he is trying to lower the bar for his own personal goals.

His best answer would be "I believe steroids are wrong, and have never used, or considered their use. In regards to what the current home run record is, that is for the fans and historians to decide. I am not here to set records. I am here to have the best possible season I can and get my team to the World Series."

[russ snyder]

This is a no win for Davis. Despite zero evidence, people already accuse him of doping. If he goes out and says that Barry's record is legit, people will say he thinks using performance enhancing drugs to set records is okay. The flip side is, if he says Maris's number is the record and tries to take a stand that steroids are wrong, he looks like he is trying to lower the bar for his own personal goals.

His best answer would be "I believe steroids are wrong, and have never used, or considered their use. In regards to what the current home run record is, that is for the fans and historians to decide. I am not here to set records. I am here to have the best possible season I can and get my team to the World Series."

Bingo. I think that you make a great point. Because of what has happened in the past, all players are playing under the cloud of suspicion. Especially a big, strong power hitter like Davis. Further, most fans don't believe that the 73 is reachable without using PEDs. He would most likely throw himself under even more scrutiny if he said that he had 73 in his sights. I can see where some would look at his comments about the Maris number as lowering the bar for himself.

Your comment regarding the record is very well stated. However, I really think that Davis responded to the questions about the all time home run record honestly. Just like Davis, Votto is entitled to his opinion about the home run record. However, I think that he comes off badly when he mentions that Davis" stance on the record is motivated by money.