Joey Votto Critical of Davis Saying the HR Record Is 61

[glenn__davis]

Lance Armstrong rode his bike faster than everyone else 7 times.

Reggie Bush received more votes than anyone else for Heisman Trophy.

USC football won the national championship in 2004.

Kentucky basketball won the national championship last year.

Those aren't officially recognized because they had some advantage that they shouldn't have gotten.

Kentucky? What?

[canonfaz]

Has anyone made a Canadian joke yet?

[weams]

Has anyone made a Canadian joke yet?

I did.

[justice98]

I think there's an ulterior motive for some guys defending a steroid user having the HR record. I think there's a segment of guys that either use or have used and don't want to be hypocrites, or they're close with friends or teammates they know are or were users.

For the record, I get the Bond's official record remaining, but that doesn't mean anyone has to personally accept it when they know how it was obtained. So I'll never fault a guy for not validating a known steroid record.

[Tony-OH]

Wow. High horse much?

Who is hurt (other than yourself) from taking steroids?

Are you serious? Do you really not see the ramifications of allowing steroid use in baseball? How about the guys forced to take them in order to compete if they were made legal in MLB? The game is better game without the juiced up Bonds, McGwire and Sosa-type of freaks.

[Ruzious]

Seems to me that Votto wouldn't be going on the offensive like that unless he was trying to rationalize something in his own best interests.

[Ruzious]

I think there's an ulterior motive for some guys defending a steroid user having the HR record. I think there's a segment of guys that either use or have used and don't want to be hypocrites, or they're close with friends or teammates they know are or were users.

For the record, I get the Bond's official record remaining, but that doesn't mean anyone has to personally accept it when they know how it was obtained. So I'll never fault a guy for not validating a known steroid record.

That's what I was trying to say - except you said it much better.

[Tony-OH]

Maybe Votto is mad because when he was on roids, he could only hit 37 home runs in an entire season. Now that's he's clean, he back to the 14-22 home run guy he should have been all along. (I say this tongue in cheek as I have no idea if Votto ever juiced but find his vehement disagreement with Davis to be suspicious.)

[LayzieDES]

This is a no win for Davis. Despite zero evidence, people already accuse him of doping. If he goes out and says that Barry's record is legit, people will say he thinks using performance enhancing drugs to set records is okay. The flip side is, if he says Maris's number is the record and tries to take a stand that steroids are wrong, he looks like he is trying to lower the bar for his own personal goals.

His best answer would be "I believe steroids are wrong, and have never used, or considered their use. In regards to what the current home run record is, that is for the fans and historians to decide. I am not here to set records. I am here to have the best possible season I can and get my team to the World Series."

Or he could go on a tear & hit 74 HR's in 154 games. I'd make & hand deliver a crown to him myself if he did that.

[Aristotelian]

His best answer would be "I believe steroids are wrong, and have never used, or considered their use. In regards to what the current home run record is, that is for the fans and historians to decide. I am not here to set records. I am here to have the best possible season I can and get my team to the World Series."

And Votto should have said: "Chris Davis is having a great season. I wish Chris the best of luck in breaking 61 or 73. Regardless, how his season compares to records set during the steroid era is for fans and historians to decide." He should not be speculating on Chris's motives. Unfortunately baseball players say stupid things.

Also there is a difference between Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds. Bonds never failed a test by MLB, and was never convicted of or proven to be using steroids. His conviction was for obstruction of justice. USADA determined officially that Lance used steroids and he confessed. Only then were his records and titles wiped.

If Bonds ever admitted to knowingly using steroids, I would like to see his record erased. Until that time, it is the official record, so be it.

[foxfield]

Me too, I blame them for lying and I blame MLB for covering it up. The integrity of sports is tied to a relatively even playing field and that is altered when PED's are in play. During the homerun derby I thought I heard that a 1 mph increase is swing speed could propel a ball an extra 6 feet. A few mph increase in swing speed could lead to a ball being a homer or an out. Maris hit 61 in 61 and then nobody touched it for over 40 years and then Sosa, McGuire and Bonds come and start throwing around sick numbers.

If you look at the top homerun hitters of all time:

1. Bonds 762

5. Rodriguez 647

8. Sosa 609

10. McGwire 583

12. Palmeiro 569

14. Ramirez 555

18. Thomas 521

24. Sheffield 509

31. Delgado 473

34. Canseco 462

36. Bagwell 449

40. Giambi 435

There are some questionable names in there surrounding players who are known to be some of the greatest of all time. Baseball needs to either put an asterisk next to individual names, the steroid period itself or let these guys in. By doing nothing there are ignoring a real black eye in MLB history while still punishing the guys who you are trying to keep out of the hall.

No matter how you slice it, the amount of names under suspicion or who are known cheaters complicates looking at a list like this. There is no way to clean this up either. It is simply a thread in the history of the game that will stand out forever.

How could anyone consider 73 the record? Honestly please share your reasoning. How is someone cheating suddenly cobsidered legit? Thats like me having 2 aces up my sleeve at the final table of the world series of poker and still being considered champion even though every knew I had aces up my sleeve that were used directly to beat my competition. Theres no reasonable argument anyone can make againt 61 being the real recors.

This is true, but there is no way to simply say some hits, home runs, runs batted in etc did not happen. It did happen. As the saying goes, you can look it up. As I noted above, it will simply remain a part of the game. In time we may come to recognize some numbers as more legitimate, but the numbers will stay on the books forever. For generations, fans will help shape how these numbers are interpreted. Just as they are today. One of the great things about the game is to compare. I saw some Chris Davis stats the other day and a reference to Mickey Mantle. That is the type of season he has had so far. There are not many sports writers that can say they saw Mantle play. But the statistical comparison can still be made. I think it is the single best part of baseball and the steroid era has damaged that fabric. But it is without question part it and will be forever.

The steroid era of baseball was/is unfortunate, but it's in the record books and there's no changing that. For Davis' sake, if he hits 62 I hope he doesn't try to crown himself or anything. Bonds is the champ, for better or worse.

Players are entitled to opinions. Davis' opinion is no different than anyone elses, including Bonds. Public Opinion may well in time refuse to recognize Bonds, but the record book will always say he hit 73. I agree.

It's pretty simple. In 2001, Barry Bonds hit the ball over the fence 73 times facing pitchers that were on equal footing (i.e. also on steroids). No amount of wishing it didn't happen is going to change that.

Once again...trying to erase history is stupid.

It has hurt the game and is a stain, but it is for better or worse, part of the fabric.

This is a no win for Davis. Despite zero evidence, people already accuse him of doping. If he goes out and says that Barry's record is legit, people will say he thinks using performance enhancing drugs to set records is okay. The flip side is, if he says Maris's number is the record and tries to take a stand that steroids are wrong, he looks like he is trying to lower the bar for his own personal goals.

His best answer would be "I believe steroids are wrong, and have never used, or considered their use. In regards to what the current home run record is, that is for the fans and historians to decide. I am not here to set records. I am here to have the best possible season I can and get my team to the World Series."

Davis may be taking a no win position, but I will offer this, what would the game be like today if more players openly criticized players for cheating when steroids first come into use. I think it is a no win position because nothing will change Bond's numbers, or anyone elses for that matter. But if more players had taken Davis' stand, or more fan's, or baseball executives.....the game would be better for it.

[foxfield]

And Votto should have said: "Chris Davis is having a great season. I wish Chris the best of luck in breaking 61 or 73. Regardless, how his season compares to records set during the steroid era is for fans and historians to decide." He should not be speculating on Chris's motives. Unfortunately baseball players say stupid things.

Also there is a difference between Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds. Bonds never failed a test by MLB, and was never convicted of or proven to be using steroids. His conviction was for obstruction of justice. USADA determined officially that Lance used steroids and he confessed. Only then were his records and titles wiped.

If Bonds ever admitted to knowingly using steroids, I would like to see his record erased. Until that time, it is the official record, so be it.

Yes, but the difference is that Armstrong's sport got tired of the guy making money off of a lie and they spent millions of dollars going after him until they could prove it. That is the difference between Armstrong and Bonds. But make no mistake, determining is not the same thing as failing a test. Bonds, never failed one to my knowledge, but I have no problem determining that he did use steroids. But MLB has chosen not to take that path.

[weams]

Yes, but the difference is that Armstrong's sport got tired of the guy making money off of a lie and they spent millions of dollars going after him until they could prove it. That is the difference between Armstrong and Bonds. But make no mistake, determining is not the same thing as failing a test. Bonds, never failed one to my knowledge, but I have no problem determining that he did use steroids. But MLB has chosen not to take that path.

Bonds never failed one that was permitted to be disclosed. The Mitchell report and the Balco investigation and his own guilty verdict are all indicative of the fact that he did fail at least two tests.

[Old#5fan]

Am I the only one here who believes Davis is spot on with his remarks, and that Votto is not only wrong, but DEAD wrong with his idiotic comments? I mean cmon, if the juiced up Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Cansenco, Palmerio, Clemens, Giambi, Aroid and all those of that era are blocked from the HOF, why the heck should their home run records be considered legit? The two go hand in hand. I agree with Davis, 61 is the untainted hallmark. Right is right and wrong is wrong. There aren't any gray areas here. If there were, then all of the above should be in Cooperstown as soon as they were or will become eligible. You can't have it both ways.

Votto is entitled to his opinion but he is intentionally or unintentionally (only he really knows) coming out in defense of the use of illegal substances banned by Major League Baseball. In my view, he should be chastised by the Commissioner for these type of comments.

[NickM21]

Votto was also the guy that refused to shake Marlon Bryd's hand at the Allstar game because he is a division rival in 2010. Dude is just a ***.