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Cardinals Offer Carlos Martinez for Alexei Ramirez; White Sox Reject

Barnaby Graves

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This was the first I heard about it, but there was already a couple threads on Cards forums.



Look - I like that Moe's sniffing around, but damn. WTF is he doing offering Martinez for a 31 yr old SS that's declined for 3 straight years and has 2 years/$20 million guaranteed on his deal?

I don't know much about him, other than looking at stats.

My bet would be putting Ramirez in the 2 hole and let him steal bases. His OPS is still way higher than Kozma's. And again, he can steal a base. He has 20 this year.

His biggest problem is he doesn't walk much, seemingly. His avg is near .300, but with such a low slg, I assume he gets a lot of singles and maybe even a lot of infield singles. Fine by me. I would love to see what speed would look like injected into our lineup. He would have been a good guy to bat ninth under TLR's old "bat the pitcher 8th" deal.

And for some reason, coming to STL mid-season tends to bring out the best in guys and they perform above their heads for quite a while.

How does he look with the glove? His WAR history is decent, and I'm assuming he isn't doing that with a .667 OPS.

He's a good glove man.

But what concerns me is that 3 years ago he was a great glove man. He's fallen quite a bit in that regard.

I just worry that we're getting a nominally better version of Furcal with a longer, more expensive contract and giving up a much better asset for the privilege.

He's on the downslope of his career. If we're giving up a young guy with 6 years of cost-control, where is it written that we can't get another good young guy in return? Pitching's not exactly easy to find - why can't this be a strength for strength deal rather than us giving up the young guy with upside for an old guy that costs a lot?

We're morons for offering that deal.

The White Sox are bigger ones for saying no.

Why the hell is CMart even on the table? He should be untouchable.

That pretty well matches my sentiments. Kozma doesn't appear to have a high ceiling, but he's still performing above expectations and starting to flash some real glove leather. I don't think what's available in the shortstop market is worth giving up a prospect who inspires comparisons with Pedro Martinez.

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The Sox are listening to proposals. They turned down a deal involving pitcher Carlos Martinez, the Cardinals third-highest rated prospect, for shortstop Alexei Ramirez, according to a scouting source.

The key word in that sentence is "involving." A straight-up deal for Ramirez, the Sox's 31-year-old shortstop, with Martinez as the exchange does not compute.

The Cardinals did not make that offer.

The Cardinals are not interested in trading Martinez -- or any of the other high-end pitching prospects they value so -- unless they receive a certain amount of control and most likely pitching help in return. As of right now, the Cardinals want to hold on to Martinez. But as with every report this time of year there's a reason behind it, and there are reasons the Cardinals and White Sox have been in contact this month.

The Cardinals are in the market for a starting pitcher who would boost the rotation and offer a different look for October while also giving them quality innings now.

The Cardinals are interested in an upgrade at shortstop, but Kozma has not been that bad and Ramirez would not be that much of an upgrade anyhow. Ramirez steals bases, but he gets caught too often. His OBP is not that much better than Kozma's. His defense is declining, while Kozma's improves. And Ramirez has an expensive contract through 2015.

Kozma has streaks where he's an offensive force. During the Nats series earlier this year, the Nats broadcasters were referring to him as "Pete Rose" Kozma. Unfortunately, those streaks have been short and infrequent up to now, but Kozma may yet develop into a more consistent hitter.

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Any chance they were looking for Peavy and Ramirez?

That's the speculation. The Cards front office seems to be doing a good job at keeping a tight lid on what they're doing, so a lot of what gets reported may only be guesses. Scouts with other organizations seem to be a prime source of rumors, and they may only be surmising based on the players they're asked to scope out.

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