Jump to content

Cardinals Offer Carlos Martinez for Alexei Ramirez; White Sox Reject


Barnaby Graves

Recommended Posts

This was the first I heard about it, but there was already a couple threads on Cards forums.

BOTB

Woah.

Look - I like that Moe's sniffing around, but damn. WTF is he doing offering Martinez for a 31 yr old SS that's declined for 3 straight years and has 2 years/$20 million guaranteed on his deal?

I don't know much about him, other than looking at stats.

My bet would be putting Ramirez in the 2 hole and let him steal bases. His OPS is still way higher than Kozma's. And again, he can steal a base. He has 20 this year.

His biggest problem is he doesn't walk much, seemingly. His avg is near .300, but with such a low slg, I assume he gets a lot of singles and maybe even a lot of infield singles. Fine by me. I would love to see what speed would look like injected into our lineup. He would have been a good guy to bat ninth under TLR's old "bat the pitcher 8th" deal.

And for some reason, coming to STL mid-season tends to bring out the best in guys and they perform above their heads for quite a while.

How does he look with the glove? His WAR history is decent, and I'm assuming he isn't doing that with a .667 OPS.

He's a good glove man.

But what concerns me is that 3 years ago he was a great glove man. He's fallen quite a bit in that regard.

I just worry that we're getting a nominally better version of Furcal with a longer, more expensive contract and giving up a much better asset for the privilege.

He's on the downslope of his career. If we're giving up a young guy with 6 years of cost-control, where is it written that we can't get another good young guy in return? Pitching's not exactly easy to find - why can't this be a strength for strength deal rather than us giving up the young guy with upside for an old guy that costs a lot?

We're morons for offering that deal.

The White Sox are bigger ones for saying no.

Why the hell is CMart even on the table? He should be untouchable.

That pretty well matches my sentiments. Kozma doesn't appear to have a high ceiling, but he's still performing above expectations and starting to flash some real glove leather. I don't think what's available in the shortstop market is worth giving up a prospect who inspires comparisons with Pedro Martinez.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update

The Sox are listening to proposals. They turned down a deal involving pitcher Carlos Martinez, the Cardinals third-highest rated prospect, for shortstop Alexei Ramirez, according to a scouting source.

The key word in that sentence is "involving." A straight-up deal for Ramirez, the Sox's 31-year-old shortstop, with Martinez as the exchange does not compute.

The Cardinals did not make that offer.

The Cardinals are not interested in trading Martinez -- or any of the other high-end pitching prospects they value so -- unless they receive a certain amount of control and most likely pitching help in return. As of right now, the Cardinals want to hold on to Martinez. But as with every report this time of year there's a reason behind it, and there are reasons the Cardinals and White Sox have been in contact this month.

The Cardinals are in the market for a starting pitcher who would boost the rotation and offer a different look for October while also giving them quality innings now.

The Cardinals are interested in an upgrade at shortstop, but Kozma has not been that bad and Ramirez would not be that much of an upgrade anyhow. Ramirez steals bases, but he gets caught too often. His OBP is not that much better than Kozma's. His defense is declining, while Kozma's improves. And Ramirez has an expensive contract through 2015.

Kozma has streaks where he's an offensive force. During the Nats series earlier this year, the Nats broadcasters were referring to him as "Pete Rose" Kozma. Unfortunately, those streaks have been short and infrequent up to now, but Kozma may yet develop into a more consistent hitter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any chance they were looking for Peavy and Ramirez?

That's the speculation. The Cards front office seems to be doing a good job at keeping a tight lid on what they're doing, so a lot of what gets reported may only be guesses. Scouts with other organizations seem to be a prime source of rumors, and they may only be surmising based on the players they're asked to scope out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



  • Posts

    • Yeah, it's hard for me to complain about a handful of winnable games in a season full of surprises. I never thought they would be a playoff team even when they were tied, or maybe ahead in a WC position earlier. There's a lot to look forward to for 2023... there's also a lot of work to do this off season.   
    • I feel like there's a default assumption that he's not a great blocker because most great pass catching TEs not named Kittle aren't.  But I've been looking out for him on running plays and this man is straight mauling people in run blocking.  He's easily Boyle's equal as a blocker even when Boyle is healthy.  But he's almost never playing tight end.   With the way he's pretty much permanently our slot receiver, having him as one of the main blockers on WR screens should be terrifying for DBs that have to shed this guy while tackling the receiver.  We put Ricard out wide a lot too, imagine Ricard and Andrews blocking for a WR screen to Bateman or Duvernay in trips.
    • Good post.  For me it doesn’t sting very much.   The team came a very long way this year.   But they were never more than a team with a puncher’s chance at the playoffs.   I’d still like to see them finish by playing a little better than they have for the last couple of weeks, to leave a good taste in our mouths after a fun season. 
    • I would want at least 3 years left for any pitcher we get in a trade.  I still think one of the young Astros starters makes the most sense.  The Astros were interested in Mullins before to upgrade their center fielder.   Elias knows that system so I like that as advantage.  Garcia, Valdez, Javier and Urquidy would be better fits because of at least 1 more year of control.  Javier would be my first choice because he has more strikeout stuff compared to other 3.  
    • Well Castillo was also dealt at the deadline and pitching usually gets more at the deadline. 
    • The Reds got two top 50ish prospects in Marte and Arroyo, plus two other solid prospects, from Seattle for 1.5 years of Luis Castillo, so 2 full years of Burnes or Woodruff (who have both been significantly better than Castillo over the last 3 years) should cost even more than that. Something like Cowser and Holliday, plus 2 or 3 more decent prospects from our top 30. Personally, I'd rather just throw a Brinks truck or two in Justin Verlander's general direction since our payroll is sub-Rays level atm.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...