Revised Poll - Whom Do You Prefer As Starting Second Baseman Down The Stretch (Not DH)

[LayzieDES]

Flaherty's great fielding is enough to sway me. And I think an extended look at him starting would really benefit his bat. It isn't an easy choice though as Roberts looks to really be so much better than Ryan with RISP & his defense isn't exactly horrible.

[waroriole]

BRob, with Flaherty as a late inning defensive replacement.

[Ed-die... Ed-die]

My first post, as I just recently joined.

I can already tell that I see some things differently than some here. Oh well - that's what makes discussion fun. Anyway - BRob has my vote - at this time.

For BRob: I see him still knocking the rust off. I can forgive that - because even when he's not stroking it, he gives us a professional at bat. (Meaning, he works the pitcher as much as possible, he has an idea of what he wants to do, being a switch-hitter - he avoids mismatches better than most, and basically he is a tough out). I also see the rust obviously coming off. With his speed, batting eye, pop in his bat, recovering fearlessness / swagger, adequate defense, "knack for the game", and as physically fit as he is --- I can see him signing another 2 or 3 year deal with the O's or somebody. I mentioned "swagger" - and that's a big deal. He has it, he's always had it, and we are seeing it come back.

On top of all of that, I also realize some genuine facts about BRob: he's a 1st round pick (50th pick / 1st round sandwich pick), a 2-time All-Star, the best player on the team for a few years there, a past Oriole MVP, a future Orioles HOFer, a lifetime .280 hitter, a tough-nosed competitor, someone that's been through the wars - and someone that has the respect of Buck Showalter AND his teammates (sort of like Markakis in that respect). A pennant-chasing club NEEDS a few older guys, like BRob and Nick, to serve as steadying anchors. Even the umps respect BRob -- just watch his at bats. He talks to the ump about ball location - doesn't argue - and just goes about his business as a professional hitter (on either side of the plate). With the rust obviously coming off - he's an asset. We are seeing the old BRob re-establishing himself everyday - this very week even.

For Ryan Flaherty: I also see him as a 1st round pick (41st pick, Cubs) and as a nice Rule 5 pickup - and I like his defense. I'm still hopeful that he will develop offensively. I'm sorry, but at this level - you HAVE to hit. My problem is that last year and this year he had a TON of opportunity to make his mark - and he's hit .215 two years running. Ouch. And watching his first 350 ABs, far, far too many are not good at bats. The good news is: he's young and could improve. I know he has a lot of family and friends / supporters on this site - and I like him too, AND I hope he has a bright future --- but at THIS time, in THIS pennant race, on THIS team, he is not BRob. What I want to see is for Ryan to be patient, improve his swing, be positive, (and most importantly) be ready to play when called upon. And when his time comes again (and it will) be ready to grab it. My fear is that Ryan can't hit major league pitching and that next year the O's will sign an established 2nd baseman to take his place.

World Series-type teams cannot afford to experiment and test guys this late into the pennant-chase. We're several games back - with time running out. The O's need to win every game possible - right here and right now - and BRob gives us a substantially better bat - and swagger - right now.

[Tx Oriole]

Poll fail i don't see Schoop.

That is who I would want.

[Tony-OH]

Funny, I bet if you asked this poll two days ago before Roberts went 3-for his last-6 with a walk you'd have a different poll results. Too many people are swayed by a good game or two.

How about this:

Brian Roberts last ten games:

.172/.235/.276/.511 (34 PAs)

Since he came off the DL (33 games)

.225/.278/.353/.631 (116 PAs)

Since 2011

.222/.271/.315/.586 (380 PA)

Yeah, this definitely looks like a guy who one poster said he would take "everyday of the week and twice on Sunday."

There is one constant in Brian Roberts and those who think he's going to suddenly get better or has an upside at 35-years old are fooling themselves.

Ryan Flaherty provides better defense and at least some upside with his offense. My guess is if the Orioles had signed some 35-year old FA and were playing him everyday with these same exact numbers the vast majority of his supporters would be up in arms asking why this guy was signed.

[Ed-die... Ed-die]

Tony -

you make some good points, and a lot of it is probably true...

But we live in a "what have you done for me TODAY" world -- and BRob is actually playing really good right now. And he's hitting really good right now - and it looks like he's getting his groove back. He's the proverbial "hot hand".

Buck has shown an enormous amount of faith in BRob - maybe to a fault - but he saw something many of us didn't... and I think it is beginning to pay off. For the O's sake, let's hope so.

[webbrick2010]

Funny, I bet if you asked this poll two days ago before Roberts went 3-for his last-6 with a walk you'd have a different poll results. Too many people are swayed by a good game or two.

How about this:

Brian Roberts last ten games:

.172/.235/.276/.511 (34 PAs)

Since he came off the DL (33 games)

.225/.278/.353/.631 (116 PAs)

Since 2011

.222/.271/.315/.586 (380 PA)

Yeah, this definitely looks like a guy who one poster said he would take "everyday of the week and twice on Sunday."

There is one constant in Brian Roberts and those who think he's going to suddenly get better or has an upside at 35-years old are fooling themselves.

Ryan Flaherty provides better defense and at least some upside with his offense. My guess is if the Orioles had signed some 35-year old FA and were playing him everyday with these same exact numbers the vast majority of his supporters would be up in arms asking why this guy was signed.

Yeah, these are the stats of a guy who is "hands down the better hitter".

With BRob we will get a consistent .575 to .625 OPS, with Ryan there is some upside and Ryan is the superior defender, but facts will not dissuade the I love Brian crowd

[Guest]

Funny, I bet if you asked this poll two days ago before Roberts went 3-for his last-6 with a walk you'd have a different poll results. Too many people are swayed by a good game or two.

How about this:

Brian Roberts last ten games:

.172/.235/.276/.511 (34 PAs)

Since he came off the DL (33 games)

.225/.278/.353/.631 (116 PAs)

Since 2011

.222/.271/.315/.586 (380 PA)

Yeah, this definitely looks like a guy who one poster said he would take "everyday of the week and twice on Sunday."

There is one constant in Brian Roberts and those who think he's going to suddenly get better or has an upside at 35-years old are fooling themselves.

Ryan Flaherty provides better defense and at least some upside with his offense. My guess is if the Orioles had signed some 35-year old FA and were playing him everyday with these same exact numbers the vast majority of his supporters would be up in arms asking why this guy was signed.

I will never forget Flaherty first 3 months. Flaherty in his first 33 games 82 At Bats 9 hits 3 2b 1HR 5 RBI

[Redskins Rick]

Yeah, these are the stats of a guy who is "hands down the better hitter".

With BRob we will get a consistent .575 to .625 OPS, with Ryan there is some upside and Ryan is the superior defender, but facts will not dissuade the I love Brian crowd

Tony, I know, loves a good strong discussion.

But, honesty, there are three sides to this discussion, which has been going on for quite some time now.

The "I love B-Rob" crowd, Ryan got six months to prove what he could do, and didn't.

The "I love Flaherty" crowd. Roberts is a has-been 35, over the hills, making too much money, needs to move on.

Neither can convince the other they are wrong.

At this point, I think we have developed a third crowd, "For the love of God, just call up Schoops and put him out there, and be done with the B-Rob vs Ryan F battle.

[Nigel Tufnel]

At this point, I think we have developed a third crowd, "For the love of God, just call up Schoops and put him out there, and be done with the B-Rob vs Ryan F battle.

Maybe the guy who threw the banana the other day was actually showing his support for "Schoops" by making an obscure reference to the monkey trial.

[Old#5fan]

That is who I would want.

Why would you want to thrust a kid who has zero experience at the major league level with all the pressure of a pennant chase into the starting lineup? That IMO would be simply nuts.

[Redskins Rick]

Why would you want to thrust a kid who has zero experience at the major league level with all the pressure of a pennant chase into the starting lineup? That IMO would be simply nuts.

MMMM, do you remember a young kid, named Manny last year?

[TouchemAll]

Gotta be Roberts as long as he's healthy and No I don't mind him seeing Flash giving Roberts some days off either.

[Tony-OH]

Tony, I know, loves a good strong discussion.

But, honesty, there are three sides to this discussion, which has been going on for quite some time now.

The "I love B-Rob" crowd, Ryan got six months to prove what he could do, and didn't.

The "I love Flaherty" crowd. Roberts is a has-been 35, over the hills, making too much money, needs to move on.

Neither can convince the other they are wrong.

At this point, I think we have developed a third crowd, "For the love of God, just call up Schoops and put him out there, and be done with the B-Rob vs Ryan F battle.

I don't know if this crowd exists outside of Flaherty's family.

I think it's more of a "I don't think a 35-year old Roberts is an effective every day player any more and Flaherty is the best option on the current roster who at least plays a better defense and carries some upside offesnively" crowd.

[Old#5fan]

MMMM, do you remember a young kid, named Manny last year?

Schoop is no Manny. The Mannys come around very seldom. If we were totally out of contention for a WC I would see calling up Schoop and starting him would be a great idea. But not now. Terrible idea.