Example A of why you fire Buck after 3 seasons.

[tntoriole]

And Stu Miller was a great closer (called them firemen back then) from 1963-1965, he had 74 saves out of 79 chances for a three year AVERAGE of 94 percent.

[primetime]

The group think of baseball people and managers specifically regarding bullpen usage is really amazing to me. If one of your RPs goes out for the 8th inning with a 1, 2 or 3 run lead and has a clean, low stress inning, why is it a "must" that you go get your "closer" for the 9th? Why not let your RP that pitched the 8th continue? It's not like Buck is the only manager that does this, it's a baseball wide thing.

Are managers so hung up on defining roles an all that jazz that they can't just do what's best for that game? Would it really be that hard to get your BP together in the spring and just give the them the gameplan that's somehing like this, "It's your job as relief pitchers to get outs and put up 0's when called upon. The inning in which you pitch is irrelevant."

Don't get me wrong, there's the human element to it. There's an immense out of pressure that comes with pitching in high leverage situations; some guys can do it, some guys can't. That said, the fact the bullpen roles and strict adherence to those roles is just silly to me. And again, it's pretty much uniform across the MLB landscape.

Back to the specifics of Wednesday's game and Buck, it's frustrating and dissappointing as a fan because his choices led to the team losing back to back games. Of course, responsbility falls with the players as well. Buck expects his guys to perform and he believes they will. Just as the players want Buck to believe in them. Calling on JJ for the 9th on Wednesday was the wrong play based on the recent past but also, JJ is a professional and you expect that he will perform when asked to do so.

And as for some folks who don't like what Buck says to the media after games, what is he supposed to say? "JJ really stunk today....boy did I screw up by putting him in or what? And man, if that Adam Jones can't stop chasing pitches in the dirt, good gravy, can that guy take a walk?" Do you really think he would or could do that, then go stand in front of his 25 guys in the clubhouse ask them to follow him into battle? Come on, get real.

Lest we we forget Ray Miller's infamous "Go ask the players....they make all the money..." remarks from his brief and failed tenure as O's skipper. That remark likely lead to him losing the clubhouse and ultimately getting fired.

I'm not saying Buck is infallible or above reproach by any means. Again, based on recent events, JJ probably shouldn't have pitched the 9th on Wednesday. That said, Buck is correct in saying that things could've happened to make the 9th inning issues not have mattered. This goes back to the what else do you expect him to say point I made earlier. Buck knows JJ screwed, up, the team knows JJ screwed up and JJ knows he screwed up but it doesn't behoove Buck or anyone on the team for Buck to get up after the game in front of the media and single anyone out. As a team, you share the blame for a loss and you move on.

[bobmc]

And Stu Miller was a great closer (called them firemen back then) from 1963-1965, he had 74 saves out of 79 chances for a three year AVERAGE of 94 percent.

Stu was a "crafty righty" serving up slop to lineups who couldn't sniff the quality playing today. He was also reputedly famous for being blown off the mound in one appearance by a strong wind. I remember seeing him pitch.

"Miller was involved in one of the more memorable moments in All Star Game history, albeit for an exaggeration of the event in question. In the ninth inning of the first of two 1961 All Star Games (two were played between 1959 and 1962), which was played at Candlestick Park, a gust of wind caused Miller to sway slightly, resulting in a balk, which advanced Roger Maris to second and Al Kaline to third. In the embellished version, it is reported that the wind gust blew the 165-pound Miller off the pitcher's mound. Kaline later scored on an error by Ken Boyer on Rocky Colavito's ground ball, which tied the score at 3-3. One batter later, the wind caused catcher Smoky Burgess to drop Tony Kubek's foul pop-up for an error. Miller bailed Burgess out by striking out Kubek, and after Yogi Berra reached base on Don Zimmer's error, Miller got Hoyt Wilhelm to fly out to left to end the inning. In the top of the 10th inning, the defense behind Miller almost did him in; Nellie Fox walked and scored all the way from first on Boyer's three-base throwing error (the second by Boyer in as many innings) on Kaline's ground ball. Miller's teammates bailed him out in the bottom of the inning and made him the winning pitcher; Hank Aaron singled and scored on a double by Miller's Giant teammate Willie Mays to tie the score, then Mays scored the winning run on Roberto Clemente's single.[5]"

[leapinghorsered]

These are like your opinions man and pretty dumb ones IMO. No reason to say Buck is mismanaging the roster. He doesn't have total say the Roberts/ Casilla/ Flash situation, and the line up order besides having little or no meaning statistically, is working fairly well as it is. Check out Davis' numbers batting 3 or 4, v batting 5. Markakis batting 3 is a choice between having a L/R/L sequence or having Jones bat 3. Personally I'd rather have Jones bat 3, but I don't think it really makes that much difference. Buck is one of the best managers I have seen in my 54 years watching the O's. Right up there with Earl and Paul Richards. I wonder how Earl would have dealt with the JJ situation. It's not as easy a call as some of the couch geniuses think.

It's pretty naive for you to think that Buck doesn't have total control of this roster. He's a well known control freak. He approved the hiring of Dan Duquette not the other way around. But hey, you've been watching Orioles baseball for 54 years, so I guess your opinion is more relevant than the rest of us. I stand corrected, thank you, oh wise Mr. El Gordo, for enlightening me.

[tntoriole]

Stu was a "crafty righty" serving up slop to lineups who couldn't sniff the quality playing today. He was also famous for being blown off the mound in one appearance by a strong wind. I remember seeing him pitch.

That was in Candlestick during an All Star game. Yeah, those Mantle, Maris, Killebrew guys, hell, they couldn't carry Adam Jones jockstrap.

[Dannyboy]

It's pretty naive for you to think that Buck doesn't have total control of this roster. He's a well known control freak. He approved the hiring of Dan Duquette not the other way around. But hey, you've been watching Orioles baseball for 54 years, so I guess your opinion is more relevant than the rest of us. I stand corrected, thank you, oh wise Mr. El Gordo, for enlightening me.

Any quotes or sources?.....didn't think so. Thinking Buck has total control of the roster, that's pretty narrow minded. As far as Buck being a "control freak", its been said in several interviews from players to analyst from espn/fox that he's changed and has become more of a players manager.

[El Gordo]

It's pretty naive for you to think that Buck doesn't have total control of this roster. He's a well known control freak. He approved the hiring of Dan Duquette not the other way around. But hey, you've been watching Orioles baseball for 54 years, so I guess your opinion is more relevant than the rest of us. I stand corrected, thank you, oh wise Mr. El Gordo, for enlightening me.

It's naive of you to think that DD and PA don't have something to say about the roster. And because I have been watching the O's for 54 years, it allows me to make a comparison between Buck and Paul Richards. I doubt you can. :rolleyestf:

[bobmc]

Stu was a "crafty righty" serving up slop to lineups who couldn't sniff the quality playing today. He was also reputedly famous for being blown off the mound in one appearance by a strong wind. I remember seeing him pitch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stu_Miller

"Miller was involved in one of the more memorable moments in All Star Game history, albeit for an exaggeration of the event in question. In the ninth inning of the first of two 1961 All Star Games (two were played between 1959 and 1962), which was played at Candlestick Park, a gust of wind caused Miller to sway slightly, resulting in a balk, which advanced Roger Maris to second and Al Kaline to third. In the embellished version, it is reported that the wind gust blew the 165-pound Miller off the pitcher's mound. Kaline later scored on an error by Ken Boyer on Rocky Colavito's ground ball, which tied the score at 3-3. One batter later, the wind caused catcher Smoky Burgess to drop Tony Kubek's foul pop-up for an error. Miller bailed Burgess out by striking out Kubek, and after Yogi Berra reached base on Don Zimmer's error, Miller got Hoyt Wilhelm to fly out to left to end the inning. In the top of the 10th inning, the defense behind Miller almost did him in; Nellie Fox walked and scored all the way from first on Boyer's three-base throwing error (the second by Boyer in as many innings) on Kaline's ground ball. Miller's teammates bailed him out in the bottom of the inning and made him the winning pitcher; Hank Aaron singled and scored on a double by Miller's Giant teammate Willie Mays to tie the score, then Mays scored the winning run on Roberto Clemente's single.[5]"

Link added

The total quality of today's lineups is far superior to the lineups of the sixties, IMHO.