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JJ Hardy is ridiculously underpaid - And a Silver Slugger- And third in the Platinum glove voting.

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

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mark_beckens Major Leaguer Rising Star

mark_beckens

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Do players deserve the opportunity to challenge for defensive spots? I'll ask again.

Seattle's Brandon Ryan, one of if not the best defensive SS in MLB, why is he not playing? Cause defense matters, but you have to be able to swing the bat also. If a team has 2 options, player 1 is a great defender and can't hit his way out of a wet paper bag and player 2 is average at both, player 2 starts 99.9% of the time.

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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If I was the manager I'm having open competitions among the starting players. It's just that simple. I'd have competitions at 1B and losers take DH. I'd have competitions at SS. Losers take 3B or 2B. Same in the outfield. If McLouth thinks he beat out Jones for CF then show me.

Don't you think managers sort of play this competition out in their heads? I mean, at the end of the day a manager stays as long as he wins. You lose enough and you go home. While there may be some shortstops who play the position when they no longer should (insert Jeter arguments here), I do not think you are making a credible argument for that to be the case. In the specific case of JJ, as the OP points out, he has been an incredible bargin for the O's. If he were to be on second or third, I think that would still be the case. But as long as his range is average or better he is going to play at ss.

As far as your wanting to play ss next year. Go for it, if you can outplay JJ and will cost less I will be thrilled to see you there. Good Luck!

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HokieOs Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

HokieOs

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I actually see Calmunderfires' point to an extent, though he's taking it way too far. SS is the most demanding defensive position on the team (outside of catcher). However, if you lose a little bit of the defense at the position and put someone in that hits like a second baseman, what do you really lose?

At the end of the day though, JJ Hardy is still very underpaid. I would love to keep him around for a long time (I've said since he got here that Machado probably shoulde stay at 3rd, short of us picking up a big hitting 3B in free agency sometime down the road). But I'd like to see us offer Hardy an extension if possible. Think a 4/36 type extension would do it? It doesn't cripple the payroll too much, it gives him a very healthy raise and a secure place to play for the next few years. It locks up the left side of our infield for a few years as well. A left side of the infield that has workd very well for us.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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You know, I just thought of this, but there's a HOF manager named Bill McKechnie who kind of did what calmunderfire is suggesting. He'd bring in like five shortstops and during spring training divide them up among the infield. He'd usually have very good defensive teams, but also teams that would sometimes have an entire infield that OPS'd .650. And of course he wouldn't do this with established players or stars... it was just his kind of single-minded desire to have the best defensive team without regard to anything else.

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isestrex Hangout Grand Counsel

isestrex

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You know, I just thought of this, but there's a HOF manager named Bill McKechnie who kind of did what calmunderfire is suggesting. He'd bring in like five shortstops and during spring training divide them up among the infield. He'd usually have very good defensive teams, but also teams that would sometimes have an entire infield that OPS'd .650. And of course he wouldn't do this with established players or stars... it was just his kind of single-minded desire to have the best defensive team without regard to anything else.

What team, what year?

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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What team, what year?

McKechnie managed a bunch of NL teams from 1922-46, including the Braves, Pirates, Reds, Cards. Plus a year in the Federal League. I'm really just going off of a story from the Historical Baseball Abstract, but I think this was mostly in his years in Boston. The Braves/Bees were pretty resource-constrained. But I'm not sure exactly what year(s) he did this - a quick search didn't reveal anything obvious.

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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To some extent, this is what the O's did at SS in 2008. And that worked out REALLY well. Who was that guy who completely had the inside track to be the starter, and celebrated by gaining 30 lbs in the offseason?

LOL. Yeah, Luis Hernandez. He was quite the subject of discussion for awhile.. The dark years.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Nice to see that if they ever open a Hall of Pretty Decent Hardy will be going in as an O.

Hardy just needs some longevity, a good story, and a buddy on the Vet's committee (whatever that looks like in 2025 or so). If he hasn't already passed the worst VC selections in career value he soon will.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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The idea that Casilla could beat out Hardy in an "open competition" for SS is laughable. calmunderfire doesn't seem to realize just how good Hardy has been defensively, not just this year but over his entire career. The guy is an elite defensive SS, who hits well for a shortstop.

Manny's a slightly different issue. We haven't seen him play SS at the major league level, and have no idea how he'd be compared to Hardy defensively. But it's a moot point, because Hardy is a Gold Glove SS and Manny is playing 3B at a Gold Glove level, so there is absolutely no reason to change anything while Hardy is still here.

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