The negativity has got to stop!!! (MAJOR RANT)

[orioleslist]

Just to add to my original post, I don't mind people being critical when there's a reason to be critical--AJ with half a baseball IQ would be a truly amazing player, and JJ's blown saves have hurt us tremendously, etc... That's merely stating the obvious... But when people start to refer to the O's as a complete joke, ignore the fact that we gained a game on TB this weekend (even though it wasn't the way we were hoping to do it), and start calling for Buck's head... that for me is totally over the top.

You don't have to agree with what I'm saying (writing, actually), but go back to today's game thread and you'll see that the negativity coming from some members is beyond disturbing. Maybe they're trolls or maybe they're not--but they're not contributing anything substantial to the discussion.

[Jonesy10]

Posters that jump on people for saying anything negative at all are just as bad. Specifically in the game thread. Not everything that happens during the game is positive, and its not terrible to post something negative. Usually the posts go as the team goes. Hence frustration the past few weeks, as this is an ORIOLES message board and the ORIOLES have not played well. It seems like some posters choose to take out their frustrations with the team on posters saying negative things, instead of just posting something themselves.

Also, this site is awesome and is the best team forum I have ever seen, but some posters attack others no matter what they post. Or quote posters every time they say something negative and troll them, but ignore their posts that are positive and useful and pretend they were never there.

But the bottom line for me is if you wanna see the site not have much negativity, the Orioles will simply need to play better.

[JTrea81]

Posters that jump on people for saying anything negative at all are just as bad. Specifically in the game thread. Not everything that happens during the game is positive, and its not terrible to post something negative. Usually the posts go as the team goes. Hence frustration the past few weeks, as this is an ORIOLES message board and the ORIOLES have not played well. It seems like some posters choose to take out their frustrations with the team on posters saying negative things, instead of just posting something themselves.

Also, this site is awesome and is the best team forum I have ever seen, but some posters attack others no matter what they post. Or quote posters every time they say something negative and troll them, but ignore their posts that are positive and useful and pretend they were never there.

But the bottom line for me is if you wanna see the site not have much negativity, the Orioles will simply need to play better.

Excellent post. And so true.

[larrytt]

One can, but unless the result is a World Series title, this team will not have performed adequately IMO. I believe they have the core roster of a World Series team so that is my expectation. Competitive is not good enough, nor should it be for a team that has spent the past 30 years without a World Series appearance.

Then you see no difference between performance and result. If the Orioles go to the seventh game of the world series, and in the bottom of the ninth, down by a run with two outs and and a runner on base, Adam Jones smashes a shot that goes over the fence, but the center fielder makes a spectacular leap and barely pulls it in on the edge of his webbing for an out, then you would not be satisfied with the performance, but if the ball goes one inch to the side and goes for a winning home run, then you would be satisfied with the performance? So your satisfaction with the Orioles performance for the entire season would come down to the last play and whether the ball goes one inch to the side as it goes over the wall? I'd be satisfied with the performance either way, just not the result if the ball is caught. To differentiate the performance because the ball is one inch to the side and gets caught is an emotional response, not an analytical one. To use your own words, because of that one inch difference, the Orioles would not have "performed adequately."

You can also be satisfied with a team's overall performance, just not a specific one, such as when they won 109 games (their most ever) but lost the world series in 1969. Judging a team by how they do in the post season (i.e. not being satisfied with performance unless they win the world series) is mostly silly since once a team makes the playoffs it's statistically mostly random. The "better" teams are only slight favorites over the "weaker" playoff teams since at this point they are mostly all within ten wins of each other out of a 162 game season.

If the Orioles do not win the world series, I will not be satisfied. But that doesn't mean I'm not satisfied with their performance if they are in it until the end - with the nuance that if they don't win the world series, the top priority is to maximize the chances of winning the world series the next year, which mostly means doing what it takes to maximize their performance the next year. The best team does not always win the world series - see 1969.

[xKHx]

Posters that jump on people for saying anything negative at all are just as bad. Specifically in the game thread. Not everything that happens during the game is positive, and its not terrible to post something negative. Usually the posts go as the team goes. Hence frustration the past few weeks, as this is an ORIOLES message board and the ORIOLES have not played well. It seems like some posters choose to take out their frustrations with the team on posters saying negative things, instead of just posting something themselves.

Also, this site is awesome and is the best team forum I have ever seen, but some posters attack others no matter what they post. Or quote posters every time they say something negative and troll them, but ignore their posts that are positive and useful and pretend they were never there.

But the bottom line for me is if you wanna see the site not have much negativity, the Orioles will simply need to play better.

Its not that its just negative. Its "the season is over" BS and all the extra crap with fire them fire this etc. There is a difference between, "Wow, Manny has not hit a slider all season." "This team stinks we lose every game the season is over". After every bad play, swing, out. That is what is insanely annoying.

[scOtt]

And King Trea is back to unite the hoards....

[Jonesy10]

Its not that its just negative. Its "the season is over" BS and all the extra crap with fire them fire this etc. There is a difference between, "Wow, Manny has not hit a slider all season." "This team stinks we lose every game the season is over". After every bad play, swing, out. That is what is insanely annoying.

Yeah I know I overreact and its too much alot of the time, but I think that's what's so great about the game. It can be going very poorly like today, then they score 7 runs, and everybody's all happy. We went from getting swept and shut out 2x in a row, to getting a huge win, and I think the game thread should probably reflect that change.

[Jonesy10]

And King Trea is back to unite the hoards....

He really hasn't said anything bad, at least from what I can see. This is what I was talking about. People like you just pounce on anything any poster says that can help you shed a negative light on them. But then you completely ignore posts that you can't find anything bad to say about.

[orioleslist]

Posters that jump on people for saying anything negative at all are just as bad. Specifically in the game thread. Not everything that happens during the game is positive, and its not terrible to post something negative.

Be critical all you want, but watch the words you use--WORDS HAVE MEANING... When you say the O's are a joke, YOU are the joke... Use facts and numbers to support your argument, but don't go out and post:

Typical Orioles. Absolute BS. Bunch of losers this team has.

or proclaim:

This team is pathetic.

This team is NOT pathetic. This team is FAR from being pathetic. We are 9 games over .500, 3 games away from the playoffs. Might seem like a failure to you, who is probably too young to realize what was going on between 1998-2001, but let me assure you that most of us older fans are THRILLED to have our team in the midst or a playoff race with a month of baseball to play.

[scOtt]

but let me assure you that most of us older fans are THRILLED to have our team in the midst or a playoff race with a month of baseball to play.

[video=youtube;0CBPK_cHCY0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CBPK_cHCY0

[larrytt]

Its not that its just negative. Its "the season is over" BS and all the extra crap with fire them fire this etc. There is a difference between, "Wow, Manny has not hit a slider all season." "This team stinks we lose every game the season is over". After every bad play, swing, out. That is what is insanely annoying.

Agreed. When someone posts that we should replace Jim Johnson as closer because he's blow nine saves, or bench Markakis against lefties because he's not hitting them, that's not necessarily negative; that's analysis. The analysis may be wrong, but that's what discussion is all about. When someone says we have no chance of making the playoffs (despite only being 3 games out with 27 to go) because of our pitching, or our lack of clutch hitting, or something similar, that's just pointless negativism that doesn't add anything to a discussion. We're in a playoff race, and anyone who thinks otherwise isn'tthinking, as their postings often make clear.

[El Gordo]

It's a message board. It isn't real, it's like a mask. In my field, the theatre, when you give people a mask to work with it brings out amazing things you never saw in the person before. Not all of those things were appealing. I would be surprised if virtually every one here didn't have ulterior motives for posting, conscious or unconscious, that had little or nothing to do with the O's, myself included. It's the nature of the beast. You just have to figure out how to separate the chaff from the bran. I do find that some of the most interesting and knowledgeable posters are posting less. I certainly miss reading guys like Vateck, and Baltimoron, e.g., more often. That's a shame.

[Col. Claypool]

And King Trea is back to unite the hoards....

Did he bring his Prince with him?

[scOtt]

It's a message board. It isn't real, it's like a mask. In my field, the theatre, when you give people a mask to work with it brings out amazing things you never saw in the person before. Not all of those things were appealing. I would be surprised if virtually every one here didn't have ulterior motives for posting, conscious or unconscious, that had little or nothing to do with the O's, myself included. It's the nature of the beast. You just have to figure out how to separate the chaff from the bran. I do find that some of the most interesting and knowledgeable posters are posting less. I certainly miss reading guys like Vateck, and Baltimoron, e.g., more often. That's a shame.

You're one of my favorites Gordo and you're right! I miss a lot of posters that now skip the GT because it's so negative. Can't hardly get a word in edgewise.

[TonySoprano]

Where I disagree with the OP is starting a thread mainly to single certain people out. We've all vented a lot of frustration with the way the team has performed in the past six weeks. No one is an honorary crew member with Jim Hunter on the Good Ship Lollipop. However, there are people who consistently don't say much, if anything, in the game threads until the stuff hits the fan, and complain, then wait on the bench until it's time to complain again. If all you have to offer is complaints, then that's where it becomes really tedious.