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Should Tillman be considered an ace?


andrewrickli

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Is this the baseball counterpart of the whole "Is Joe Flacco an elite quarterback" discussion?

Yes. Everyone has a slightly different definition of what it takes to be called an ace. For me, Bedard was not an ace in 2006 when he won 15, but in 2007 he was an ace up to the time he got hurt. I'm not quite ready to annoint Tillman, but he's on the cusp.

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Define #1, then equate it to Tillman. Tell me what keeps him from meeting those criteria?
Consistency is what separates mediocre players from good ones and great ones from good ones. When he can do what he did tonight on a consistent basis and throw a few less clunkers in, he could be an ace.

Here's your answer, but others have said it here. You wouldn't have called Maddux an ace? It has less to do with throwing hard than commanding the ball though I admit that helps.

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Right now, I think there's more of an argument of Flacco being an elite QB than Tillman being an ace.

Hopefully 2 years from now there won't be any question as to either.

Flacco is above average, not elite. I don't think he'll ever be considered elite.

As for Tillman? He's our top of the rotation starter. An ace, to me, is an elite pitcher. Tillman is more of a second tier kind of guy. An ace on our staff. But an ace is a top 5 in the league kind of guy, IMHO.

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Flacco is above average, not elite. I don't think he'll ever be considered elite.

As for Tillman? He's our top of the rotation starter. An ace, to me, is an elite pitcher. Tillman is more of a second tier kind of guy. An ace on our staff. But an ace is a top 5 in the league kind of guy, IMHO.

I'm good with that. He's shown the ability to improve but hasn't been consistently good game to game. His CH has shown improvement this season and his FB continues in game to have late life. He's a solid #2 right now.

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Ok, you were making it sound because he didn't throw 95 he didn't have the ability to be a number 1.

My comment was, if Tillman threw 95+ with his other pitches, he could be a #1. Without it he probably won't ever be considered a true #1. He can still be an ace.

Think the definition of #1 is two plus pitches, average+ third pitch, plus plus control and or movement. plus pitching makeup/thought process

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My comment was, if Tillman threw 95+ with his other pitches, he could be a #1. Without it he probably won't ever be considered a true #1. He can still be an ace.

Think the definition of #1 is two plus pitches, average+ third pitch, plus plus control and or movement. plus pitching makeup/thought process

Well, I'd agree with the second part of your statement, but the first sounds like you're making the same argument. Take Cliff Lee, who in 2010 was in the top 10 for average FB velo at 91.3 was considered an ace. Not too many guys average 95+ on their FB. Tillman's velocity actually increases as the game goes along, what I'd like to see him do more is pitch inside. Case in point was ARoid's HR tonight, the pitch was out over the plate and he got extended. When Chris gets his FB in he can tie guys up at 92-93 and up in the zone like he did with Granderson.

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