Clevenger/Wieters Platoon in 2014?

[DrungoHazewood]

You joke, but there is a possibility this is exactly what happens...The Orioles are using him too much and wearing him out. If a team were to get him adequate rest and have him focus on his hitting more instead of his behind the plate work, who knows, but it won't happen in an Orioles uniform...

Or, resting him for and focusing on offense would have meant that: a) he's worse defensively, which probably counterbalances any potential offensive gains and b) while resting they're playing abysmal players, counterbalancing any gains from resting him.

[Shabadoo25]

I think all of our players need more rest than they are getting, assuming the fill in isn't a guaranteed 0-5.

A couple of days off for Crush against killer lefties might have been a good idea.

A

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[DrungoHazewood]

Hopefully we will not be idiotic enough to pay Wieters 5 years and 60 million dollars. I'm actually with JTrea on this one (can't believe I'm saying that). I don't know if Clevenger is part of the equation but we could be probably be looking at some low cost catching platoon options and devote those financial resources elsewhere. if there's a good deal to be had for Wieters, I'd be looking at it.

I'm really curious as to how this would work? What kind of good deal could be had for a catcher who the Orioles don't want to re-up because he'll be paid more than he's worth? If we don't believe in him and we see him every day, what other team is going to say, shucks, let's give the O's several top pitchers/prospects for him?

I guess that kind of stuff does happen, but there's no way you can count on it. I think we'd be very lucky to get more than a middling package for Wieters given his cost, the fact he's coming off a down year, and time until free agency.

And you don't know if Clevenger is part of the equation? C'mon, if the O's hadn't recently just stumbled upon him and he got a key hit last night he wouldn't be in the equation three blackboards back.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm really curious as to how this would work? What kind of good deal could be had for a catcher who the Orioles don't want to re-up because he'll be paid more than he's worth? If we don't believe in him and we see him every day, what other team is going to say, shucks, let's give the O's several top pitchers/prospects for him?

I guess that kind of stuff does happen, but there's no way you can count on it. I think we'd be very lucky to get more than a middling package for Wieters given his cost, the fact he's coming off a down year, and time until free agency.

And you don't know if Clevenger is part of the equation? C'mon, if the O's hadn't recently just stumbled upon him and he got a key hit last night he wouldn't be in the equation three blackboards back.

Seems like people are taking two sides of the argument with respect to Wieters by saying he's valuable and then stating there is no trade value for him. If your position is to keep Wieters and notextend him I'm probably fine with that.

Why would you discount Clevenger as a platoon option with so few ML AB's? He has adecent Mil track record. Yes I was impressed with his AB's but he also has a decent track record.

[weams]

Seems like people are taking two sides of the argument with respect to Wieters by saying he's valuable and then stating there is no trade value for him. If your position is to keep Wieters and notextend him I'm probably fine with that.

Why would you discount Clevenger as a platoon option with so few ML AB's? He has adecent Mil track record. Yes I was impressed with his AB's but he also has a decent track record.

I would love to trade Matt. Just not to Atlanta for pitching, and not to necessarily be replaced by any specific platoon of catchers without MLB track records. That is all.

[DrungoHazewood]

Seems like people are taking two sides of the argument with respect to Wieters by saying he's valuable and then stating there is no trade value for him. If your position is to keep Wieters and notextend him I'm probably fine with that.

I think he has value to the Orioles, and that he's likely to bounce back with the bat next year. Selling him low after a poor offensive season, with just two years left at 2nd/3rd year arb rates, probably means you're not going to get much back. Anyone expecting a haul is probably going to be very disappointed.

I would be open to extracting all the value we can out of him, and either letting him walk or trying up to the end to get him to sign a reasonable extension.

Why would you discount Clevenger as a platoon option with so few ML AB's? He has adecent Mil track record. Yes I was impressed with his AB's but he also has a decent track record.

I'm wary of guys whose value is mainly tied up in minor league batting average. Clevenger is a career .311 hitter in the minors, and that drives his .370 OBP. His walk rate is less than one per 10 PAs. In the majors that will drop to maybe .260, and his walk rate will go down to something like 5% of PAs, giving him an average OBP, at best, to go along with a career high of 8 homers. He's a decent fallback option or backup, but I think he'd be pressed to match a down year for Wieters.

And I don't know what his defensive reputation is, but since 2011 his opponents are stealing almost a base a game at about an 80% success rate. With the Cubs he threw out 7 of 52 attempted base stealers in 49 starts.

Maybe since Clevenger is the zero-expectations, minimal-salaried journeyman that'll be acceptable.

[TradeAngelos]

Anyone who wants to jump down Jtrea's throaty every time he tries to get creative needs to wake up and realize that the ONLY way this team will improve is by thinking outside the box like this with trades and such.

We are operating like a small market team and have shown ZERO willingness to sign free agents so how the heck else are we going to get better while on the cusp?

Trading Wieters might be "unthinkable" for a team who actually has a larger budget to work with, but that is not the case here. It is going to be a "choice" between players not "we just have to sign and keep them all".

[DrungoHazewood]

Anyone who wants to jump down Jtrea's throaty every time he tries to get creative needs to wake up and realize that the ONLY way this team will improve is by thinking outside the box like this with trades and such.

We are operating like a small market team and have shown ZERO willingness to sign free agents so how the heck else are we going to get better while on the cusp?

Trading Wieters might be "unthinkable" for a team who actually has a larger budget to work with, but that is not the case here. It is going to be a "choice" between players not "we just have to sign and keep them all".

If they can somehow trade Wieters for young players at positions of need, I'm open to that. But I think that it's strange that there are regular calls to trade disappointing players for some big package. It's almost like they're counting on other teams having much higher valuations of our players they we do.

I think trading Wieters probably just saves some money that could potentially be reinvested in other solutions. And you know how well it's worked to count on Angelos reinvesting anything.

[El Gordo]

Weiters has been on average a 3 WAR player. So if he were to be offered an extension of 5/40 that would be acceptable IMO. Perhaps after a poor season he'd be more inclined to do so.

[Frobby]

Weiters has been on average a 3 WAR player. So if he were to be offered an extension of 5/40 that would be acceptable IMO. Perhaps after a poor season he'd be more inclined to do so.

There is a huge divide between BB-ref and fangraphs on Wieters this year. BB-ref has him at 0.1 rWAR, fangraphs says 2.0 fWAR.

I think 5/$40 mm is pretty fair for Wieters, considering that the first two years of that he'll still be in arbitration rather than free agency. But I doubt he and Boras would sign for that.

[waroriole]

There is a huge divide between BB-ref and fangraphs on Wieters this year. BB-ref has him at 0.1 rWAR, fangraphs says 2.0 fWAR.

I think 5/$40 mm is pretty fair for Wieters, considering that the first two years of that he'll still be in arbitration rather than free agency. But I doubt he and Boras would sign for that.

I doubt they sign anything this offseason, unless we offer them a stupid contract. He's coming off his worst season, and only has 2 years until FA. At this point, I wouldn't be too upset if we ride him until he's a FA and then let him go, while getting a couple of picks.

[DrungoHazewood]

There is a huge divide between BB-ref and fangraphs on Wieters this year. BB-ref has him at 0.1 rWAR, fangraphs says 2.0 fWAR.

We've mentioned before that BB-ref's fielding metric for catchers includes some kind of CERA-derived thing that accounts for most of the difference. I wouldn't totally discard that, but I am skeptical.

[DrungoHazewood]

I doubt they sign anything this offseason, unless we offer them a stupid contract. He's coming off his worst season, and only has 2 years until FA. At this point, I wouldn't be too upset if we ride him until he's a FA and then let him go, while getting a couple of picks.

Under the new CBA they'd have to go through some qualifying offer machanations that he rejects to get any pick out of him, and even then I think it's just the one.

[El Gordo]

I think we could break even were he to accept a qualifying offer of 15M.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

I think he has value to the Orioles, and that he's likely to bounce back with the bat next year. Selling him low after a poor offensive season, with just two years left at 2nd/3rd year arb rates, probably means you're not going to get much back. Anyone expecting a haul is probably going to be very disappointed.

I would be open to extracting all the value we can out of him, and either letting him walk or trying up to the end to get him to sign a reasonable extension.

I'm wary of guys whose value is mainly tied up in minor league batting average. Clevenger is a career .311 hitter in the minors, and that drives his .370 OBP. His walk rate is less than one per 10 PAs. In the majors that will drop to maybe .260, and his walk rate will go down to something like 5% of PAs, giving him an average OBP, at best, to go along with a career high of 8 homers. He's a decent fallback option or backup, but I think he'd be pressed to match a down year for Wieters.

And I don't know what his defensive reputation is, but since 2011 his opponents are stealing almost a base a game at about an 80% success rate. With the Cubs he threw out 7 of 52 attempted base stealers in 49 starts.

Maybe since Clevenger is the zero-expectations, minimal-salaried journeyman that'll be acceptable.

In the majors that will drop to maybe .260, and his walk rate will go down to something like 5% of PAs, giving him an average OBP, at best, to go along with a career high of 8 homers.

Do you just make this stuff up or do you have some kind of data to support these numbers?