Is Buck Showalter a "Championship Quality Manager'?

[SteveA]

The first thing that comes to mind is leaving Chen in too long for several games, when we all know he needed to be pulled. Then the reliever came in when the game was blown. That's 3 wins maybe?

And given how our relievers performed this year, you are absolutely certain "the reliever" would have done a great job and would not have blown the game?

I don't disagree with you that there were some times where the starters were left in too long. But we did not have a lot to work with bullpen-wise this year.

[SteveA]

The first thing that comes to mind is leaving Chen in too long for several games, when we all know he needed to be pulled. Then the reliever came in when the game was blown. That's 3 wins maybe?

And I'll also add that there were other times when it was "clear" to fans that a starter was being left in too long, and the starter got through a jam and ended up pitching very well.

Just as an example, you and others, Ommaculate, were calling for the starter to be taken out in the FIRST INNING in the game thread Friday night.

So yeah, you and a few others are constantly in the game threads saying "he's done, get him out of here"... often in the first three innings. Were people like you actually put in charge of managing the team our bullpen would have been DESTROYED by June and we probably would be 10 games under .500 right now.

It's easy to scream nearly every game for the starter to be yanked at some point, and then after the fact bring up certain times where he wasn't and he got hammered and cost us a [potential] game.

But a brief use of the search funciton will show that you pretty much want to go to the bullpen early in every single game, whenever the starter shows the least sign of struggling.

While I don't disagree that there were some games when Chen was left in too long (and many, many other decisions of Buck which I disagree with this year, along with many, many, many others that I agree with), I don't think that proves your point. I am fairly certain that if pitchers were removed as soon as you and centralpaosfan and several others in the game threads are always demanding, our bullpen would resemble the cast of extras for The Walking Dead right now.

[TouchemAll]

Holes already poked in the they are tired theory

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2013/09/sizing-up-one-theory-for-the-os-struggles-on-offense.html

[foxfield]

Look man, I get what your saying but its a losers mentality. The goal o EVERY team is to win the World Series. As a former Yankee fan I can tell you they expect to win it EVERY year. Anything less and its a time to make a change of the people in charge.

I do not know whether to damn you or praise you. But will settle for praise! Hallelujah!

[SteveO]

The better question would be is this a championship quality team? The answer is no. Because we don't have the starting pitching, or the depth to be able to rest the players enough. Nor do we have the place setters we need, to be driven in by all our power hitters.

Exactly.

Anyone who truly believes this team as currently constructed is championship quality is delusional. Its a good but not great team. If you want to get picky maybe a move here or there and Buck squeezes out a couple of wins more at best.

With a good pitching staff, better take setters and appropriate depth, there is no reason Buck could not that s team all the way IMO.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4

[waroriole]

I'm pretty sure Terry Francona has 2 WS titles. Charlie Manuel has 1. Ozzie Guillen has 1. Joe Girardi has 1.

Anybody think Buck isn't a better manager than those guys?

[Prayin4Reign]

Showalter's stubbornness and loyalty to his "guys" is what gets him fired at every stop. The guy knows how to change the mindset of a team, but it's that loyalty that seems to be the drawback. This contract extension will be interesting to watch especially if the Orioles regress even further this next season which is a trait of Showalter teams. I doubt Angelos would fire him though. If Duquette tries to replace any of his staff this offseason as that is something that happens with a lot of teams that have these kinds of issues the Orioles are having, it will be interesting to see what happens...

Regress even further??? I think you take yourself a little too serious. He's about to lead them to their 2nd straight winning season. Every year is not going to be a playoff type season. The fact that firing is even mentioned in this thread makes no sense at all.

Showalter is a smart guy, he will make the necessary adjustments, as will Duquette and the Orioles will be right back in the middle of things next year.

[El Gordo]

Reasons why the O's didn't make the playoffs.

JJ

Hammel

Markakis

Arrieta

Britton

Wieters

Strop

Reimold

Betemit

Buck?

'

[Ed-die... Ed-die]

In a different thread, mdbdotcom mentioned that Ryan F should have played a TON being a super-sub --- playing 3B, SS, 2B, LF, RH, even DH or 1B on a regular basis - resting the starters. Even non-Oriole baseball fans that I know are mentioning how burned out our key starters are. THAT is one thing that I think, looking back, Buck coulda/shoulda done differently. Of course, Ryan is a .218 hitter (and I don't see that improving very much) - BUT his defense is very good, his potential to pop a homer is real, and the REST he could offer the starters is proving to be a big deal.

Regardless, I still back Buck, I still think he's the best manager the O's have had in ages, I still think he turned us around the day he came on board... but I also think the lack of giving substantially more rest to the key starters was a mistake. He could have controlled that.

[Tx Oriole]

In a different thread, mdbdotcom mentioned that Ryan F should have played a TON being a super-sub --- playing 3B, SS, 2B, LF, RH, even DH or 1B on a regular basis - resting the starters. Even non-Oriole baseball fans that I know are mentioning how burned out our key starters are. THAT is one thing that I think, looking back, Buck coulda/shoulda done differently. Of course, Ryan is a .218 hitter (and I don't see that improving very much) - BUT his defense is very good, his potential to pop a homer is real, and the REST he could offer the starters is proving to be a big deal.

Regardless, I still back Buck, I still think he's the best manager the O's have had in ages, I still think he turned us around the day he came on board... but I also think the lack of giving substantially more rest to the key starters was a mistake. He could have controlled that.

Buck is human and he made mistakes. Every manager does. I believe the O's will

be successful with Buck. The thought that B. Valentine could have been the

manager makes me shudder.

[kontiki]

I would ask this question "Could Buck have done the same job that Joe Giraldi has done with the Yankees this year with all the injuries and players being shuffled about?"

Even with the injuries the Yankees still had $120 million on the field. What's the big accomplishment?

And as for the "Buck's worn out the O's" excuse: were they worn out in July too?

Every team going to the playoffs has solid pitching.

[LookitsPuck]

I'm beginning to think Buck isn't. He has no idea how to properly matchup pitchers. He goes by his gut too often and gets spanked for it. He stay swith pitchers far too often, doesn't bat weak hitters lower in the order, doesn't like to platoon...and when he does, they do well, then he plays them against both pitchers...I'm beginning to see the cracks in Buck's armour.

[OriolesMagic83]

I think better questions would be "Is Duquette a championship GM?" and "Is Angelos a championship owner?"

The O's biggest problem is pitching, pitching and more pitching. The O's can't match up against the top teams' starters. Other than Tillman, no O's starters would make a few of the top pitching staffs. I'm thinking of Detroit and TB. It wouldn't hurt to have a couple more hitters who can work a count and draw some walks.