Olney - Orioles Facing a Run of Tough Choices

[TonySoprano]

Ok. Because. MASN was a cash out of half of the team's value. No matter what he told us. And they ain't giving that cash back.

Half???

Are you saying therefore that revenues were higher in 2000 than in the MASN years? I wouldn't make that assumption.

[weams]

Half???

Are you saying therefore that revenues were higher in 2000 than in the MASN years? I wouldn't make that assumption.

HE sold half the market. WE just kept coming.

[BradyBunch]

Ruiz got $8.5 miilion a year.What is Wieters worth then? Montero money? He makes 12 million a year.

Faced with the prospect of losing their longtime catcher, Carlos Ruiz, to the Boston Red Sox, the Philadelphia Phillies agreed Monday to re-sign Ruiz to a three-year, $26 million contract, sources confirmed to ESPN.com.

The deal will pay Ruiz a salary of $8.5 million in each of the next three seasons, according to a source familiar with the contract. There is also a $4.5 million club option for the 2017 season or a $500,000 buyout.

Carlos Ruiz's deal will pay him $8.5 million in each of the next three seasons, a source said, and will make him the fourth-highest-paid catcher in baseball.

Ruiz, who turns 35 in January, becomes the fourth-highest-paid catcher in baseball, with an average annual value of $8.67 million.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9995925/philadelphia-phillies-re-sign-veteran-catcher-carlos-ruiz

check out Carlos Ruiz career stats. If Wieters had that obs and avg with his power.. i'd have no problem with $12 million.

[TonySoprano]

HE sold half the market. WE just kept coming.

A lot of people stopped going 1.1 million before the Nats arrived. Another 0.5-0.9M after.

1997 3,711,132

1998 3,684,650

1999 3,433,150

2000 3,297,031

2001 3,094,841

2002 2,682,439

2003 2,454,523

2004 2,744,018

2005 2,624,740

2006 2,153,139

2007 2,164,822

2008 1,950,075

2009 1,907,163

2010 1,733,018

2011 1,746,411

2012 2,102,240

[weams]

A lot of people stopped going 1.1 million before the Nats arrived. Another 0.5-0.9M after.

1997 3,711,132

1998 3,684,650

1999 3,433,150

2000 3,297,031

2001 3,094,841

2002 2,682,439

2003 2,454,523

2004 2,744,018

2005 2,624,740

2006 2,153,139

2007 2,164,822

2008 1,950,075

2009 1,907,163

2010 1,733,018

2011 1,746,411

2012 2,102,240

Good point. Thanks for the stats.

[Sanfran327]

I agree with some of what Olney says but not all.

The O's should not have problems that force them to trade players in the short term. Their payroll next year could be in the 106m range and with revenue increases for attendance and additional TV money that should be something the O's can handle.

1) 15m Markakis -RF

2) 13m Jones - CF

3) 10m Davis - 1B

4) 10m J Johnson - Closer/RP1

5) 8.5m Feldman - SP1

6) 8m Wieters - C

7) 7.5m Hardy - SS

8) 5m McLouth - LF

9) 5m Norris - SP2

10) 5m David Murphy - LHDH

11) 4.072m Chen - SP3

12) 3.2m O'Day - RP2

13) 3m Hunter - RP3

14) 3m Rajai Davis - RHLF/UTOF

15) 2.5m Matusz - RP4

16) 1.8m Patton - RP5

17) 1m Roberts - SHARE 2B

18) .52m Tillman - SP4

19) .52m Valencia - DH

20) .51m Gonzalez - SP5

21) .5m Machado - 3B

22) .5m Flaherty - SHARE 2B

23) .5m Clevenger/Snyder/Teagarden - BU C

24) .5m Stinson - RP6

25) .5m S Johnson or McFarland or Britton - RP7

Total 106.622m

I agree that the long term contracts are what will cause the O's to make trades at some point. Boras asking for way more then the O's can support is a driver with Wieters and Davis.

If Markakis has a good year I can see the O's negotiating a 3 year deal in the 25m range for 2015-2017. But he has to show he is still worth 8m per year.

The O's could go 2/20m this off season with Johnson. Extending Hardy for 2015-2016 for 2/23m could work.

Cheap starters like Gausman, Bundy and McFarland could help hold down the payroll not this year but over the next few years.

I like that DD has cast a wide net on Wieters. Its good to try to get as much competition as possible. Who knows when and where it will leads.

I have to say I love this plan on paper, but is this enough to get us back in the division conversation or into the WC game? Really what we're counting on here is continued production for JJ Hardy, Jones, and Davis, a step forward (for both halves of the year) from Machado and a giant leap for Flaherty, a rebound from Wieters, Markakis, and Roberts, and solid growth from virtually all five starters.

If the offense stays the same as 2013, that's more or less okay (it will play well in the regular season, but no so much in the post season against top tier pitching), but without the growth from the rotation, our bullpen will suffer the same fate as it did last year. There are some VERY good arms in our bullpen, but it's often overused. We need at least three starters that can get 20 outs 4 out of 5 starts, and the other two have to be able to do it at least ever other outing. If we can achieve that, we will be a very good team. If not, we'll struggle again, even with a mostly very talented roster.

[Dipper9]

That doesn't answer my question why we spent more in 2000 than we did with the influx of MASN dollars.

Valid point, but just to add some info, 2000 was also the year that Thryft sold everybody and their mother for nothing! So the Opening Day payroll was far from what Peter had to hand out.

[Dipper9]

[/u][/b]

My girlfriend and I recently took an official tour of Camden Yards. It was fine enough I guess but everyone was dark and they didn't even have a bathroom open in the entire park for us to use. I know this is a minor thing, but are you kidding me? This ownership is as cheap as they come....it is disgraceful.

What I don't understand is that Angelos is getting up there, does he realize he cannot transfer this money to the afterlife?

Regarding Weiters, I think he is so very overrated. In fact, I think if we basically keep the same team in tact and sign a decent veteran catcher, we make the playoffs. Some catchers just win-look at Pudge or R Wilson. A good veteran catch is worth his weight in gold.

Weiters is terribly overrated and Boras is a joke. Don't play his game, just trade him now for a good core of players. If you cannot get that, hang on to him but I think you can get an impressive return.

I would let JJ walk. If you can get something, even better. However, DD has already said we are picking up the option. I doubt he changes course there.

I say see what Crush does this year and then try an extension with him. Don't deal him now under any scenario IMO.

Angelos could have a higher payroll for sure, but we have a solid core with around a $100 million payroll, and he also just sunk a ton of money into the Yard. He is not "as cheap as they come."

As for the Wieters part of your post, you rant about how overrated he is but then claim we can get an impressive return? How is that? You think he sucks but you think other teams don't know he sucks? :scratchchinhmm:

[Can_of_corn]

Angelos could have a higher payroll for sure, but we have a solid core with around a $100 million payroll, and he also just sunk a ton of money into the Yard. He is not "as cheap as they come."

As for the Wieters part of your post, you rant about how overrated he is but then claim we can get an impressive return? How is that? You think he sucks but you think other teams don't know he sucks? :scratchchinhmm:

Doesn't all the money that goes into stadium renovations come from the MSA?

Wasn't there a big dust-up over that a few years ago?

[Rene88]

Angelos could have a higher payroll for sure, but we have a solid core with around a $100 million payroll, and he also just sunk a ton of money into the Yard. He is not "as cheap as they come."

As for the Wieters part of your post, you rant about how overrated he is but then claim we can get an impressive return? How is that? You think he sucks but you think other teams don't know he sucks? :scratchchinhmm:

I didn't say he sucks. I said he was overrated. Specifically, I think a veteran catch might be able to do more with pitch selection, etc. and help the staff. Do I know this for a fact? Of course not, but a hunch.

I think we should sell on his potential at this point. I do not think he "sucks". We have to get rid of some people it sounds like and my choices are clearly Weiters and JJ.

For the record, I think we have the money to keep them all and add some, but everyone is convinced the poor ole' Orioles don't have enough dough....

[TonySoprano]

Doesn't all the money that goes into stadium renovations come from the MSA?

Wasn't there a big dust-up over that a few years ago?

It comes entirely from the MSA because we have a deal that whatever they do for the Ravens stadium, they also have to do with us. In fairness, Peter didn't pay a dime for it, but he fought with the MSA to get it done.

[Dipper9]

It comes entirely from the MSA because we have a deal that whatever they do for the Ravens stadium, they also have to do with us. In fairness, Peter didn't pay a dime for it, but he fought with the MSA to get it done.

And he pays rent and dues based on the Oriole Park revenues, so one would think bettering the Stadium and bringing in more fans would ultimately put more money in the state's pocket.

[Can_of_corn]

And he pays rent and dues based on the Oriole Park revenues, so one would think bettering the Stadium and bringing in more fans would ultimately put more money in the state's pocket.

Can we do away with the myth that stadiums help the local economy?

It isn't true to any significant degree when the stadiums are new, it certainly isn't true more then 20 years later.

[Can_of_corn]

It comes entirely from the MSA because we have a deal that whatever they do for the Ravens stadium, they also have to do with us. In fairness, Peter didn't pay a dime for it, but he fought with the MSA to get it done.

Didn't needed repairs (scoreboard) sit unfixed while he fought with the MSA?

[TonySoprano]

And he pays rent and dues based on the Oriole Park revenues, so one would think bettering the Stadium and bringing in more fans would ultimately put more money in the state's pocket.

I don't think revenues drive the amount the Orioles pay in rent. If they did then we wouldn't have to fight with them to make the improvements. Improving the stadium brings in more ticket sales, to an extent (e.g. the increased attendance in 2012 on the statue days), which becomes more money for Peter to bank.