MacPhail's negotiations - confusing results

[PlumOriole]

We've been told since November when we started talking to the Cubs that AM is very organizated and detailed in his negotiations. He has a list of what he wants and is very specific on the players he wants back.

My question to insiders and others is why the back and forth for MONTHS!?

Here's what we want. Meet the demands or we'll move on. Usually in business negotiations you don't want to make the first offer but by now the Mariners and Cubs have to know what we want and yet we hear "we're still talking". About what? You either meet the demands or you don't. Call me if you're ready to send over the right package. Otherwise don't bother.

[bigbird]

No comment.....

[The Wedge]

What you are suggesting could possibly lead teams to not want to deal with him at all, being so uncompromising. He's already fighting an uphill battle, and you want to add to the pile?

[The Wedge]

No comment.....

Saying no comment only works if you are directly asked a question, you know. Otherwise, it actually is a comment.

[Sports Guy]

Yea, people can make all the excuses they want but the bottom line is it shouldn't be THIS hard and it shouldn't take THIS long.

And before many of you start getting overdramatic(cough RZNJ, VaTech, cough ) this has nothing to do with getting things done to fit the time frame of OH posters.

It has everything to do with us needing to do many more things besides trading these 2 guys.

[Big Al]

Could be the teams we're dealing with are holding out for better offers from other teams.

[OsLuvrInKy]

Yea, people can make all the excuses they want but the bottom line is it shouldn't be THIS hard and it shouldn't take THIS long.

And before many of you start getting overdramatic(cough RZNJ, VaTech, cough ) this has nothing to do with getting things done to fit the time frame of OH posters.

It has everything to do with us needing to do many more things besides trading these 2 guys.

Most excellent point SG. Just because it is taking some time to trade Erik and Brian does NOT mean we shouldn't be seeing progress made in the minors. Why do they not have specialized tutors hired for some of our star prospects. You cannot tell me that it would not be in this teams best interest to bring in a tutor for 3-4 weeks to help Weiters. Bring in Johnny Bench for 500K for 4 weeks. To me that would be a wise investment.

[mcgraw238]

I recall Jim bowden of the Nats stating that he and Minya "worked" on the Lastings Milledge deal for several months. Isn't that the nature of the business? In baseball, I believe you make your requests, discuss paremeters and you keep the lines of communication open.

[Guest rochester]

We've been told since November when we started talking to the Cubs that AM is very organizated and detailed in his negotiations. He has a list of what he wants and is very specific on the players he wants back.

My question to insiders and others is why the back and forth for MONTHS!?

Here's what we want. Meet the demands or we'll move on. Usually in business negotiations you don't want to make the first offer but by now the Mariners and Cubs have to know what we want and yet we hear "we're still talking". About what? You either meet the demands or you don't. Call me if you're ready to send over the right package. Otherwise don't bother.

Having the pleasure to negotiate with "insiders" in the organization (non baseball) - this does not surprise me nor do I believe it is a bad tactic necessarily (depends on the situation). The lines of negotiation should always be open - what we (may have) asked for months ago or what the other team would give up could be completely different.

Now, saying that, if the hold-up is taking place because there is too much bureaucracy that is another issue entirely. I would assume there is enough resources available to determine Plan B, etc. and offer demands quickly. If not, then the other party has to move on so they are not left empty handed. If this is the case then IMO EB and BR will be here come OD.

IF this is the case - we are shot until philosophically (new ownership) we change. IMO, PA brought AM in because he trusts his instincts to get things done. IF that has changed....I really do not want to think about that... However, I am far from convinced that this is the case.

[Pre-Highlanders]

These deals are not taking a long time because both GM's need to calculate PECOTAs to the 300th decimal place. They know the value they assign to the pieces, and have for a long time. But their respective bargaining positions are not static. If one party is more patient than the other, that gives them leverage in the negotiation. If MacPhail convinces the M's that he is willing to hold Bedard until the deadline, then he may be able to get more for him than he could if they thought he had to deal him in the next week. He's not going to get them to offer more than they think he's worth, but he will be able to get them to give up more than they thought they'd have to.

It's essentially a game of chicken, and you don't know if you've won until the deal comes down.

As a fan, I'd like for the trades to have been made two months ago, and to have my life back. But as a negotiator, I see no flaw, and some potential upside in MacPhail's playing the waiting game.

[Guest rochester]

Yea, people can make all the excuses they want but the bottom line is it shouldn't be THIS hard and it shouldn't take THIS long.

And before many of you start getting overdramatic(cough RZNJ, VaTech, cough ) this has nothing to do with getting things done to fit the time frame of OH posters.

It has everything to do with us needing to do many more things besides trading these 2 guys.

I understand but remember that the stakes are very high for both sides. For example, does Bedard give the M's a legit shot at the playoffs? How does losing Jones negate that. Is it worth (potentially) 2 years of bedard for a guy that MAY be a star for 10 years (let alone the other pieces).

The stakes for the O's is even bigger...you trade the only real pieces that will hopefully jump-start the rebuild...and have an impact for a minimum of 2 years. Tejada was an example of what should be done but history shows that the Astros give in pretty quickly...

[Sports Guy]

I know you won't, but you should concede that the quicker you come to an agreement, the less likely are are to get as much as you want. I'm sure McPhail could have made an agreement on both playes a month ago. He obviously has been working to get more than was offered. Do you think it's more important to get the other things done, than it is to get as much as possible for Roberts and Bedard?

Without knowing what he is really asking for, I don't see how this can be answered.

For example, I think the Dodgers would have done a LaRoche, hu, McDonald and Meloan trade.

I think that is better than what we are likely to get from Seattle but i don't think AM makes that trade.

[Sports Guy]

I understand but remember that the stakes are very high for both sides. For example, does Bedard give the M's a legit shot at the playoffs? How does losing Jones negate that. Is it worth (potentially) 2 years of bedard for a guy that MAY be a star for 10 years (let alone the other pieces).

The stakes for the O's is even bigger...you trade the only real pieces that will hopefully jump-start the rebuild...and have an impact for a minimum of 2 years. Tejada was an example of what should be done but history shows that the Astros give in pretty quickly...

The stakes are high for Bedard...not sure I agree with you about BRob.

But that is probably just semantics.

[Guest rochester]

The stakes are high for Bedard...not sure I agree with you about BRob.

But that is probably just semantics.

Yea..I was looking at BRob as only are 2nd piece on the market that has value....in what we bring back and/or what the Cubs may give back...

[ilovetheos]

I think this can be standard when both GM's aren't budging. So far I like the holdout, but only if in the very end we get the best possible deal possible. I think the other deals people have suggested were never proposed and were just one's own ideas. It is taking Minnesota a long time to trade their best pitcher, someone Bedard can possibly be compared to.