MacPhail's negotiations - confusing results

[Sports Guy]

SG, I agree with the first bolded language, but let me ask you this. If that same customer comes back a few weeks later and says he will pay what you were asking, wouldn't you still sell him/her the diamond? The only potential downside for the buyer waiting is that the diamond is gone. AM is banking on the players he wants still being in play.

Sure i would still sell it but I wouldn't be holding onto the diamond either.

Regarding this coming year, it is a rebuilding year anyway, so I would prefer AM get as much as possible for EB and BR. Other moves would just be icing on the cake, and, IMO, nothing earth shattering to the overall development of the team.

It is absolutely imperative to the development of the team because of salary(maybe the draft gets effected?) and playing time to younger, better players who could be part of the future.

[bigbird]

SG.......forget the fiber in your cereal this morning?????

[Shopay]

Sure i would still sell it but I wouldn't be holding onto the diamond either.

It is absolutely imperative to the development of the team because of salary(maybe the draft gets effected?) and playing time to younger, better players who could be part of the future.

And as I said yesterday in a post, if Bavasi wants AM to move he may want to start to discussing Jones, etc. in other trades, even if he has no intent in moving him. However, Bavasi hasn't done much of this, if any, so I believe AM is comfortable in waiting this out.

With respect to the second statement, do you really believe it is more important to potentially get marginal pieces for Payton, Mora, etc., than to maximize the deal for EB and BR? I guess our opinions differ on that. Moreover, look at AM's track record for trades, he has made lots of minor trades in February and March -- any deals beyond EB and BR would in all likelyhood be minor.

[PlumOriole]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying do a deal no matter what. There's no doubt AM is in a positiong of strength and I would hold out for what I wanted in his position. I'm questioning why we keep hearing different proposals when we've been told MacPhail is very clear about what he wants.

[tyinmd5150]

I believe that AM is simply being patient and weighing all of his options. While this may be frustrating for us as fans, he is only trying to maximize our return. Bedard is under contract for two more seasons, there is no need for the Orioles to rush the process and settle for anything less than maximum value in return. In the position that we are trading from, it would be irresponsible for Macphail not to hold out for what he feels is the best possible return. Sometimes that requires several months of negotiations with the primary suitor(currently the Mariners), while we also field offers from other suitors(the Red, Mets, Indians, ect.) to strengthen our trade position and give us other options and leverage to use in those negotiations. I, like most on this board, would like nothing more than to see these trades completed sooner rather than later, so we can evaluate what holes need to be filled and what the best avenue is to fill them. However, I think that fact that AM hasn't rushed to complete a deal just to complete a deal and appease the fanbase is a positive sign that we finally have someone in control of this team that has a blueprint in place to build a winner and his lack of action seems to be a sign that he is not willing to waiver on what he feels is an acceptable return. While that may not be the easiest thing to accept or appreciate while it is happening, in the long run i believe it will be what brings this team back to contention. I know it seems like a long time now, but a month or two of waiting for the best trade certainly beats more years of directionless floundering.

[scOtt]

Just to assuage SG's fears, that we need to move on and get many other things done...

1. I imagine AM talks to Seattle (and Chicago etc.) many times a days. But I also doubt that takes up his whole 12 hour day (or whatever) either. He is doing other things. Signed Guts. I'm sure he's also working on other arb cases. He has a guy in Florida working on the FAA approval thing. He has people working on the Dominican Academy. He has a lot of irons in the fire, even if it appears he's very static.

2. A lot of the other things we need to move onto, are held up by whether we trade Bedard and BRob. Example: We could probably sign Corey Patterson to play CF, with less than a week of negotiations. That option is sitting there waiting for AM to take it. But we don't know if we will get a CFer or not.

I just think holding out for the best he can get is smartest. And if it happens, the rest will happen very quickly.

[olehippi]

That would be because I am not asking him to rush anything.

It is freakin January 17th...Less than a month to go before ST...I am hardly calling for a rush.

Well, if you're not in a rush, you're definitely impatient. Otherwise, you wouldn't be complaining so much about nothing being done. IMO, you seem to be upset mostly because MacPhail isn't doing things the way you think they should be done. And, while your ideas a generally sound in concept, they obviously aren't the same as MacPhails.

[Shopay]

I believe that AM is simply being patient and weighing all of his options. While this may be frustrating for us as fans, he is only trying to maximize our return. Bedard is under contract for two more seasons, there is no need for the Orioles to rush the process and settle for anything less than maximum value in return. In the position that we are trading from, it would be irresponsible for Macphail not to hold out for what he feels is the best possible return. Sometimes that requires several months of negotiations with the primary suitor(currently the Mariners), while we also field offers from other suitors(the Red, Mets, Indians, ect.) to strengthen our trade position and give us other options and leverage to use in those negotiations. I, like most on this board, would like nothing more than to see these trades completed sooner rather than later, so we can evaluate what holes need to be filled and what the best avenue is to fill them. However, I think that fact that AM hasn't rushed to complete a deal just to complete a deal and appease the fanbase is a positive sign that we finally have someone in control of this team that has a blueprint in place to build a winner and his lack of action seems to be a sign that he is not willing to waiver on what he feels is an acceptable return. While that may not be the easiest thing to accept or appreciate while it is happening, in the long run i believe it will be what brings this team back to contention. I know it seems like a long time now, but a month or two of waiting for the best trade certainly beats more years of directionless floundering.

I agree. Nice post Ty.

[Sports Guy]

And as I said yesterday in a post, if Bavasi wants AM to move he may want to start to discussing Jones, etc. in other trades, even if he has no intent in moving him. However, Bavasi hasn't done much of this, if any, so I believe AM is comfortable in waiting this out.

With respect to the second statement, do you really believe it is more important to potentially get marginal pieces for Payton, Mora, etc., than to maximize the deal for EB and BR? I guess our opinions differ on that. Moreover, look at AM's track record for trades, he has made lots of minor trades in February and March -- any deals beyond EB and BR would in all likelyhood be minor.

It should all be getting done...The excuses being used to not get them done are bs.

[Fairfax Bird]

Yea, people can make all the excuses they want but the bottom line is it shouldn't be THIS hard and it shouldn't take THIS long.

And before many of you start getting overdramatic(cough RZNJ, VaTech, cough ) this has nothing to do with getting things done to fit the time frame of OH posters.

It has everything to do with us needing to do many more things besides trading these 2 guys.

Accusing others of being overdramatic SG ... pot, this is kettle, your black ... of course it shouldn't take this long, I mean it isn't like there are other top flight pitchers on the market who have been dangled this long. What other GM would do this? Oh, wait, Bill Smith in Minnesota. Yeah, but he sucks ... oh wait, did he really get Delmon Young for Matt Garza ... dang, I guess MacPhail isn't the only careful GM when assessing the trade value of a top 3 lefty in the game.

[Sports Guy]

Accusing others of being overdramatic SG ... pot, this is kettle, your black ... of course it shouldn't take this long, I mean it isn't like there are other top flight pitchers on the market who have been dangled this long. What other GM would do this? Oh, wait, Bill Smith in Minnesota. Yeah, but he sucks ... oh wait, did he really get Delmon Young for Matt Garza ... dang, I guess MacPhail isn't the only careful GM when assessing the trade value of a top 3 lefty in the game.

More excuses...If Bedard is so good, it shouldn't matter that Santana hasn't been dealt.

And Minnesota is being stupid too....Hughes and others for Santana should have been done a while ago.

[Fairfax Bird]

More excuses...If Bedard is so good, it shouldn't matter that Santana hasn't been dealt.

And Minnesota is being stupid too....Hughes and others for Santana should have been done a while ago.

What do you mean excuse ... it is a comparison. Bedard and Santana have similar values, each GM is carefully weighing their options. Just because it is not done YOUR way, doesn't mean it is not being done the correct way. More than one way to get things done.

I fully expect that if no deal gets done then the board will go ape-sh*t over MacPhail. I also fully expect that if MacPhail lands two great deals that no one here will give him credit for holding out.

[Sports Guy]

What do you mean excuse ... it is a comparison. Bedard and Santana have similar values, each GM is carefully weighing their options. Just because it is not done YOUR way, doesn't mean it is not being done the correct way. More than one way to get things done.

I fully expect that if no deal gets done then the board will go ape-sh*t over MacPhail. I also fully expect that if MacPhail lands two great deals that no one here will give him credit for holding out.

Do you credit for grading papers? It's his freakin job!

And unless he ends up with Clement, Jones, Triunfel, Morrow and Tillman, i don't see how he should get credit.(at least, not getting on your knees credit that you seem to be talking about)

If he ends up doing some kind of variation to a deal that we have been discussing on here for over a month, he hasn't done anythign spectacular.

[osfan83]

Two questions:

1. How much better in 2008 do you think Bedard will be than he was in 2007?

2. Is Bedard worth more with 1 year remaining on his current deal or two?

The answers to these questions should determain the timetable for trading Bedard.

[olehippi]

It should all be getting done...The excuses being used to not get them done are bs.

We don't know what is "getting done." Just because we don't hear about other negotiations, doesn't mean they aren't happening. And what "excuses" are you talking about? Perhaps figments of your imagination? AM and the FO haven't offered any excuses. In fact, they've said practically nothing, which is why some, if not most, of the people on OH are slowly going insane.