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This weekend or Bust??????


Belkast

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You may very well be right. But as I indicated to SG yesterday, perhaps AM's self-imposed deadline is just being used as an attempt to create an artifical trade deadline with other teams. Who knows. I know there are times when I have negotiated deals and communicated deadlines that are not real to try to move a deal along.

When you've created your fake deadlines, how has that affected your position after the deadline has passed? At that point, don't the other parties have to contact you and offer some value to bring you back into the negotiation? In this sense, artificial deadlines can be very valuable both pre and post deadline. Agree? :confused:

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IMO the only deadline, is when do we have to sign CPat. Bottom line we need a CF, a back end to the pen arm, and maybe a better back up C. Except for the CF, this can be done during ST. It would be nice to move some of Payton, Millar, Gibbons, and Mora but if Mora and Gibbons could be moved on their own, they would have been by now and I expect there are some standing offers for Millar and Payton, should we find we can afford to move them. To my mind it is a matter of one's priorites. Is it worth it to risk losing CPat and thus have to live with Payton/Redman in CF, by waiting as long as possible to get good value for Bedard?

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You are the worst offender of putting words in people's mouths. I know I have never said there in no deadline and we have plenty of time. More importantly I have said that there is still a month until pitchers and catchers report.

Read SG's post. He did not put "quotations" around the phrases. He was paraphrasing the sentement of many people that we can wait as long as we have to so that MacPhail finds the right deal. If people want to argue that others have not said that, than they haven't been paying attention lately. SG is not wrong in his OP of this thread.

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Moving too slow for what?

Justification number one: teams are not giving you what you think you get or ultimately get out of them. None of the others matter after that one. When the first pitch is thrown in the season and we have our current roster I will think the offseason was very dissappointing, but until then we know nothing really about how it is going.

Well, for one, this trade is moving too slow to put the rest of the team together. Right now, we have holes at CF, SS, and Closer. So, by the argument you all are taking to SG, its okay to just stand pat and wait as long as we have to to wait for the Mariners or someone else to blink. So how do we put the rest of the team together? Do we sign Patterson, only to have Jones in a month? Now we have TWO CFers. Do we sign a SS, only to aquire Cedeno in a Cubs deal of Roberts? Now we have two SS and no second baseman. Do we sign Dotel, but then get Sherril back from the Mariners for Bedard? There are TOO many holes on this team that need to be filled, and waiting for the "perfect" trade assures only one thing...not only will the 2008 Orioles SUCK, but we will have AAAA players WITH NO FUTURE filling some positions, while we have excess ML quality guys for other positions. I agree with Belkast's original post...this weekend things need to happen on the trade front, or you move on a fill the holes through Free Agency, thus once again prolonging the rebuild and guarnteeing even more years of losing!

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Gallagher

Cedeno

Pie

Marshall

Just some of the names that have been dicussed here, arent going to be at the convention.

Pie is involved in the Dominican winter league finals, basically their World Series.

Cedeno is still involved in the Venezuelan playoffs.

The other two...Hmmmm.

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Well, for one, this trade is moving too slow to put the rest of the team together. Right now, we have holes at CF, SS, and Closer. So, by the argument you all are taking to SG, its okay to just stand pat and wait as long as we have to to wait for the Mariners or someone else to blink. So how do we put the rest of the team together? Do we sign Patterson, only to have Jones in a month? Now we have TWO CFers. Do we sign a SS, only to aquire Cedeno in a Cubs deal of Roberts? Now we have two SS and no second baseman. Do we sign Dotel, but then get Sherril back from the Mariners for Bedard? There are TOO many holes on this team that need to be filled, and waiting for the "perfect" trade assures only one thing...not only will the 2008 Orioles SUCK, but we will have AAAA players WITH NO FUTURE filling some positions, while we have excess ML quality guys for other positions. I agree with Belkast's original post...this weekend things need to happen on the trade front, or you move on a fill the holes through Free Agency, thus once again prolonging the rebuild and guarnteeing even more years of losing!
You'll just have to live with LH at SS IMO, I don't see them going after another one, except possibly Wilson, outside of a Bedard deal. How urgent is it for us to sign CPat? What teams are we in competition with for him? How badly does a rebuilding team looking to lose 90+ ganes need a closer.
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CPat is worse than a Payton / Redman platoon in CF. Hernandez is better than giving up a prospect for a marginally better short stop that isn't part of the long-term rebuild. Aquino has closed in the past and can do it again. Quiroz is already on the roster and has potential that has been derailed by injuries. None of those moves cost you any players in trade or additional dollars in payroll.

Also, none of them would be my first choice. But, if the Dodgers refuse to consider trading Kemp or Kershaw, and Cincy refuses to move Bruce, and now Seattle refuses to trade Jones, and Chicago won't even consider Hill or Pie, we are not making any major improvements for the future prior to the start of spring training. So why make inconsequential ones in CF or at SS just for the sake of change?

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Well, for one, this trade is moving too slow to put the rest of the team together. Right now, we have holes at CF, SS, and Closer. So, by the argument you all are taking to SG, its okay to just stand pat and wait as long as we have to to wait for the Mariners or someone else to blink. So how do we put the rest of the team together? Do we sign Patterson, only to have Jones in a month? Now we have TWO CFers. Do we sign a SS, only to aquire Cedeno in a Cubs deal of Roberts? Now we have two SS and no second baseman. Do we sign Dotel, but then get Sherril back from the Mariners for Bedard? There are TOO many holes on this team that need to be filled, and waiting for the "perfect" trade assures only one thing...not only will the 2008 Orioles SUCK, but we will have AAAA players WITH NO FUTURE filling some positions, while we have excess ML quality guys for other positions. I agree with Belkast's original post...this weekend things need to happen on the trade front, or you move on a fill the holes through Free Agency, thus once again prolonging the rebuild and guarnteeing even more years of losing!

I for one have bought into the rebuilding idea, as much has it hurt to admit we are not going to have a snowballs chance this season because of it. One of the things that has to be dealt with is holes don't matter one bit. The difference in having Redmond or Cpatt in CF is virtually meaningless on a rebuilding team. The difference between having the greatest pinch hitter of all time and having Fahey for your hitter off the bench is just as meaningless. Don't chase one or two extra wins this season. Secure as much premuim talent as possible for our blue chip pieces (Bedard, Brob, Ramon, Walker, Bradford) get the best younger players we can regardless of position for our Junk and use 08 to sort out what we have.

BTW there is a very, very good reason the Roberts and Bedard deals have to be worked out first. Those are the deals that you are going to get additions to our future core from. There has to be roster space available. After those moves a guy like millar might bring a real good prospect back but with him you would be willing to assume more risk, IMO, on a young non-roster guy that is a long way off. If you have space maybe you get a valuable peice for the ML club but it is not and should not be the objective.

I expect some (read SG) to poo poo this line of thought. This is the same reason I said in the summer that it was important that AM got Weiters to sign a Mil deal. I was right then and I think I am right now. While we still have guys that can be shed for nothing there comes a point where even the O's run out of that type of guy. The junk on our roster is not going to give you young ML ready guys that are going to help you when the time comes that we don't stink. We are not missing opportunities. The guys we should be looking at for our junk are not in any teams ML plans for this season.

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CPat is worse than a Payton / Redman platoon in CF. Hernandez is better than giving up a prospect for a marginally better short stop that isn't part of the long-term rebuild. Aquino has closed in the past and can do it again. Quiroz is already on the roster and has potential that has been derailed by injuries. None of those moves cost you any players in trade or additional dollars in payroll.

Also, none of them would be my first choice. But, if the Dodgers refuse to consider trading Kemp or Kershaw, and Cincy refuses to move Bruce, and now Seattle refuses to trade Jones, and Chicago won't even consider Hill or Pie, we are not making any major improvements for the future prior to the start of spring training. So why make inconsequential ones in CF or at SS just for the sake of change?

While I would prefer CPat to Payton/Redman I don't think the difference is so great as to prevent AM from taking his time in order to get full value for Bedard and Brob. I agree that the other needs aren't that immediately urgent as well. Our in house solutions are adequate in the worse case scenario
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So much for this report huh?

According to ESPN 1000 in Chicago, the Cubs and Orioles have reached a tentative agreement on a trade that would send Brian Roberts to the Cubs for at least three players. It sounds iffy because no players are known but it is believed that they are holding off on announcing it until this weekends Cubs Convention

The day's not over yet....

Where was this printed? I know it says that WMVP had the original report, but where was this text?

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I for one have bought into the rebuilding idea, as much has it hurt to admit we are not going to have a snowballs chance this season because of it. One of the things that has to be dealt with is holes don't matter one bit. The difference in having Redmond or Cpatt in CF is virtually meaningless on a rebuilding team. The difference between having the greatest pinch hitter of all time and having Fahey for your hitter off the bench is just as meaningless. Don't chase one or two extra wins this season. Secure as much premuim talent as possible for our blue chip pieces (Bedard, Brob, Ramon, Walker, Bradford) get the best younger players we can regardless of position for our Junk and use 08 to sort out what we have.

BTW there is a very, very good reason the Roberts and Bedard deals have to be worked out first. Those are the deals that you are going to get additions to our future core from. There has to be roster space available. After those moves a guy like millar might bring a real good prospect back but with him you would be willing to assume more risk, IMO, on a young non-roster guy that is a long way off. If you have space maybe you get a valuable peice for the ML club but it is not and should not be the objective.

I expect some (read SG) to poo poo this line of thought. This is the same reason I said in the summer that it was important that AM got Weiters to sign a Mil deal. I was right then and I think I am right now. While we still have guys that can be shed for nothing there comes a point where even the O's run out of that type of guy. The junk on our roster is not going to give you young ML ready guys that are going to help you when the time comes that we don't stink. We are not missing opportunities. The guys we should be looking at for our junk are not in any teams ML plans for this season.

IMO, there is a lot of merit in this post.

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I for one have bought into the rebuilding idea, as much has it hurt to admit we are not going to have a snowballs chance this season because of it. One of the things that has to be dealt with is holes don't matter one bit. The difference in having Redmond or Cpatt in CF is virtually meaningless on a rebuilding team. The difference between having the greatest pinch hitter of all time and having Fahey for your hitter off the bench is just as meaningless. Don't chase one or two extra wins this season. Secure as much premuim talent as possible for our blue chip pieces (Bedard, Brob, Ramon, Walker, Bradford) get the best younger players we can regardless of position for our Junk and use 08 to sort out what we have.

I agree with that line of thinking. But, I think that the optimum time to acquire said talent is almost gone for the off season. Teams need to be ready for '08 soon. Spring training isn't that far away. The number of teams willing to part with a ton of pieces is probably waning. I doubt very much that many teams are looking to part with many pieces who would contribute this year since they don't have a lot of time to fill those holes. I think the same thing applies at the trading deadline. You can still get talent, but it won't be the young talent that is already contributing at the ML level. IMO, the time to make this deal (or these deals) for the maximum return was early in the offseason.

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Adam Jones is crap? Carlos Triunfel is crap? Since when? Seriously, while January 31 is not the end be all day to make trades, AM had better have something up his sleeve, because this team has not improved at all this offseason thus far. I think you need to change your defintion of crap though. Bedard and Roberts will NOT bring in "crap."

Compared too Bedard and Roberts Jones&Triunfel are unproven crap,if they were as great as you think theres no way they would be traded to Baltimore.

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