Schmuck calls out the Orioles!

[TradeAngelos]

I'm not directing this at you at all, but this is usually the part where someone points out that the Cardinals have, with one exception, drawn over 3 million fans a year since 1998. Detroit has been in about the top-third of the league in attendance since 2006 I don't have the Forbes numbers in front of me but probably someone will chime in with them as well.

We killed the golden goose that was Camden Yards through gross mismanagement. This caused a big impact on revenues.

MASN makes up for that 3 fold.

Factor..yes. Excuse...no.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

I'm not directing this at you at all, but this is usually the part where someone points out that the Cardinals have, with one exception, drawn over 3 million fans a year since 1998. Detroit has been in about the top-third of the league in attendance since 2006 I don't have the Forbes numbers in front of me but probably someone will chime in with them as well.

We killed the golden goose that was Camden Yards through gross mismanagement. This caused a big impact on revenues.

This is not true. Baltimore is simply not as good a baseball town as either St Louis or Detroit. The Orioles got a big bump when Camden opened, as it was new and beautiful. It was bound to wear off. Bad play didn't help, however, Baltimore is just not as big a baseball town as SL and DET.

The Orioles won 318 games from 1969-1971, their average attendance was 12,930. the average MLB attendance was 12,375. So they were barely above average in one of the best runs of all time. By comparison, between 69-71 St. Louis averaged 20,235 and Detroit 19,220. That is worlds apart in fan base.

From 54-91, pre Camden, the Orioles had attendance below league average 20 times in 38 years. The goose ( Camden ) was going to die on it's own.

I agree with the mismanagement, but that is not whole reason for lower attendance. Baltimore, new Camden aside, never drew that well.

[Tony-OH]

[/b]

This is not true. Baltimore is simply not as good a baseball town as either St Louis or Detroit. The Orioles got a big bump when Camden opened, as it was new and beautiful. It was bound to wear off. Bad play didn't help, however, Baltimore is just not as big a baseball town as SL and DET.

The Orioles won 318 games from 1969-1971, their average attendance was 12,930. the average MLB attendance was 12,375. So they were barely above average in one of the best runs of all time. By comparison, between 69-71 St. Louis averaged 20,235 and Detroit 19,220. That is worlds apart in fan base.

From 54-91, pre Camden, the Orioles had attendance below league average 20 times in 38 years. The goose ( Camden ) was going to die on it's own.

I agree with the mismanagement, but that is not whole reason for lower attendance. Baltimore, new Camden aside, never drew that well.

Attendance is only part of the issue nowadays. TV revenue is much bigger piece of the pie and MASN as a RSN should be a pretty big golden goose.

[weams]

We killed the golden goose that was Camden Yards through gross mismanagement. This caused a big impact on revenues.

Nail. Meet Head.

[MemorialStadKid]

The comparison to the Tigers and Cards as mid market teams is apt. Good for him.

The crazier thing is that there's more general wealth in our metro area than in Detroit. And a market willing to spend big bucks to see the team.

Yet... we continue to act as the paupers of MLB

MSK

[wildcard]

There is no new news here. Profit has always been more important than winning to Peter Angelos. We don't have the wait for that answer. It just the MO of the Orioles.

However, Peter has found a GM that knows how to do both. Give Peter his profit and compete. And it will not include Choo, Beltran or Cruz. Those guys are all too expensive for what DD will make work. The guys that have a chance to be added are McLouth, Feldman, Garrett Jones and one of the cheaper closers on the FA market.

Look at what DD is doing. He is adding fringe guys that have produced high OBP in the high minors in Weeks and Peguero. Both guys add speed and OBP. Can they make the team. Maybe, maybe not but they can change the focus in ST. They can get other guys to think about more then hitting the ball out to the park. DD has a method to his madness.

So if the O's keep their payroll at 100m plus or minus 5m to start the season and add 5m mid season to plug holes, the O's might contend for a playoff spot. That about all DD can hope for until Gausman and Bundy mature to TOR starters which could be in a year or 4 years. Who knows.

I am pretty repulsed at the thought of Peter pocketing the biggest part of the 25M in additional TV money. But that is what Peter hired DD to do. Contend and give him huge profits. Now we see if DD can deliver when the other guys are increasing their payrolls.

That is the question that needs answering. Not if profits are important to the O's ownership. That ship sailed a long time ago.

[Can_of_corn]

[/b]

This is not true. Baltimore is simply not as good a baseball town as either St Louis or Detroit. The Orioles got a big bump when Camden opened, as it was new and beautiful. It was bound to wear off. Bad play didn't help, however, Baltimore is just not as big a baseball town as SL and DET.

The Orioles won 318 games from 1969-1971, their average attendance was 12,930. the average MLB attendance was 12,375. So they were barely above average in one of the best runs of all time. By comparison, between 69-71 St. Louis averaged 20,235 and Detroit 19,220. That is worlds apart in fan base.

From 54-91, pre Camden, the Orioles had attendance below league average 20 times in 38 years. The goose ( Camden ) was going to die on it's own.

I agree with the mismanagement, but that is not whole reason for lower attendance. Baltimore, new Camden aside, never drew that well.

Don't forget the impact the Ravens and the Nationals had. For a stretch the O's were the only game in town in Baltimore and DC Baseball fans had no where else to go.

[TonySoprano]

I am pretty repulsed at the thought of Peter pocketing the biggest part of the 25M in additional TV money. But that is what Peter hired DD to do. Contend and give him huge profits.

That's also why he likes Showalter so much. Remember this from a month ago?

"I'm trying to stay focused from within but I do feel very confident that, if we need to do something, that financially we'll do what needs to be done. I've never had Peter (Angelos) say no. But I'm not a guy that asks a lot either."

source -Steve Melewski

[TouchemAll]

I've been saying this for years. I never understood how Detroit and St Louis out spent us when we should be on par with them. Add in the $25 million more they get from MLB for the national TV revenue, and there is no reason the payroll needs to be $95 million.

If the Orioles don't make a significant jump in payroll at this point with their current core group of players, it will be obvious that ownership is more concerned with the bottom line than contending for a World Series. In the past they've been able to say the time wasn't right or we weren't a player or two away. They would say start up costs with MASN and blah, blah, blah were the reason we weren't seeing a jump in payroll. Meanwhile, we hear that Nationals are players with some big priced free agents and we see their budget exceeding the Orioles. The only difference is the6y have different ownership.

Tony its been OBVIOUS TO ME FOR YEARS I only stay and O's fan since 66 because I've LOWERED my

expectations since PA has been the owner.

[brianod]

There is no way we should be going after big name free agents because they are all poor values. There is no way we should be be paying JJ 10 million dollars to be an average closer. So, what's the alternative? I don't know but I suspect maybe it's time to sign Chris Davis to a big contract? Maybe it's time to add a few pitchers with the 20 million we save by not paying Brob and JJ? Either way, it's too early to condemn the Orioles. We can't pay Yankee money or RedSox money but we can spend another 30 million on payroll. If we end up with a payroll under 110 million, then it's time to condemn ownership. But spending 30 million doesn't guarantee a winning team unless it's done with value in mind. I'm willing to give the Orioles time. I'm not willing to continue to waste my money on season tickets if they don't meet or beat last years payroll.

[McNulty]

I'm not directing this at you at all, but this is usually the part where someone points out that the Cardinals have, with one exception, drawn over 3 million fans a year since 1998. Detroit has been in about the top-third of the league in attendance since 2006 I don't have the Forbes numbers in front of me but probably someone will chime in with them as well.

We killed the golden goose that was Camden Yards through gross mismanagement. This caused a big impact on revenues.

Does it even matter though? If the attendance is 3,000 or 3 million Angelos is going to put the same salary toward the team.

[tntoriole]

There is no new news here. Profit has always been more important than winning to Peter Angelos. We don't have the wait for that answer. It just the MO of the Orioles.

However, Peter has found a GM that knows how to do both. Give Peter his profit and compete. And it will not include Choo, Beltran or Cruz. Those guys are all too expensive for what DD will make work. The guys that have a chance to be added are McLouth, Feldman, Garrett Jones and one of the cheaper closers on the FA market.

Look at what DD is doing. He is adding fringe guys that have produced high OBP in the high minors in Weeks and Peguero. Both guys add speed and OBP. Can they make the team. Maybe, maybe not but they can change the focus in ST. They can get other guys to think about more then hitting the ball out to the park. DD has a method to his madness.

So if the O's keep their payroll at 100m plus or minus 5m to start the season and add 5m mid season to plug holes, the O's might contend for a playoff spot. That about all DD can hope for until Gausman and Bundy mature to TOR starters which could be in a year or 4 years. Who knows.

I am pretty repulsed at the thought of Peter pocketing the biggest part of the 25M in additional TV money. But that is what Peter hired DD to do. Contend and give him huge profits. Now we see if DD can deliver when the other guys are increasing their payrolls.

That is the question that needs answering. Not if profits are important to the O's ownership. That ship sailed a long time ago.

I agree that is the Potter strategy. However, just think of what happens if say Tillman regresses or AJ gets hurt...last place just as easily in my line of sight as playoffs with the idea of continuing to use dumpster finds to build the team.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Does it even matter though? If the attendance is 3,000 or 3 million Angelos is going to put the same salary toward the team.

I actually suspect the outlay is based pretty closely on attendance and attendance based revenues.

[wildcard]

That's also why he likes Showalter so much. Remember this from a month ago?

source -Steve Melewski

Rhetoric

[Bradysburns]

I've been saying this for years. I never understood how Detroit and St Louis out spent us when we should be on par with them. Add in the $25 million more they get from MLB for the national TV revenue, and there is no reason the payroll needs to be $95 million.

If the Orioles don't make a significant jump in payroll at this point with their current core group of players, it will be obvious that ownership is more concerned with the bottom line than contending for a World Series. In the past they've been able to say the time wasn't right or we weren't a player or two away. They would say start up costs with MASN and blah, blah, blah were the reason we weren't seeing a jump in payroll. Meanwhile, we hear that Nationals are players with some big priced free agents and we see their budget exceeding the Orioles. The only difference is the6y have different ownership.

Boom. So true. The Nationals thing really is embarrassing. It's like throwing it in our faces every offseason. The Orioles ownership should really be ashamed for their lack of aggressive acquisition of *quality* talent. In my view, it's now... or never for this team. No kidding. If we're building from within, who the heck are we going to build with in terms of position players? Machado can only play one position at a time. When we lose Hardy, Davis, Wieters, Markakis, McClouth... what happens then, if we don't spend? The answer: a team full of has-beens and never-will-be's.