Os have considered extending JJ Hardy.

[PeteU]

When making decisions on players like this you have to always say to yourself "What would Tampa do?" in this same situation. Because obviously we are following the Tampa model...or something.

In that case it is clear JJ should be traded, not extended to get max value out of the 95 marbles we have at our disposal now and in the future. Tough decisions have to be made, and this would be one of them.

We don't have to be Tampa Bay (or Oakland). They have older stadiums with little revenue. They have to play gimmicks just to survive.

Our stadium isn't brand new but is still viewed as one of the best in baseball. And we have a regional sports network.

The other thing about Tampa Bay and Oakland is despite their continued success, they can't pull in more than 15,000-20,000 a game most nights. Why? Because fans find no reason to invest their emotions in players who might be traded away within a few years. Traded away wisely, mind you, but gone nonetheless. Essentially it's like rooting for a college team with players you know are going to graduate. That doesn't translate well to the pro level.

That's why I get so exasperated when the "Let's be the Rays or A's and trade Davis" crowd pipes up. We don't have to play that way.

[tommyboy]

Hardy, Davis , and Wieters should be priority 1 for the O's

[TradeAngelos]

We don't have to be Tampa Bay (or Oakland). They have older stadiums with little revenue. They have to play gimmicks just to survive.

Our stadium isn't brand new but is still viewed as one of the best in baseball. And we have a regional sports network.

The other thing about Tampa Bay and Oakland is despite their continued success, they can't pull in more than 15,000-20,000 a game most nights. Why? Because fans find no reason to invest their emotions in players who might be traded away within a few years. Traded away wisely, mind you, but gone nonetheless. Essentially it's like rooting for a college team with players you know are going to graduate. That doesn't translate well to the pro level.

That's why I get so exasperated when the "Let's be the Rays or A's and trade Davis" crowd pipes up. We don't have to play that way.

I think you misunderstood me.

I agree with you. I am not saying it is what we should be, but it is how this team operates and must with the budget constraints.

In that case older players with value need to be dealt for cheaper younger players, not extended.

[crawjo]

I think you misunderstood me.

I agree with you. I am not saying it is what we should be, but it is how this team operates and must with the budget constraints.

In that case older players with value need to be dealt for cheaper younger players, not extended.

But it's still not an apt comparison. The Orioles right now are NOT a low-payroll team, they are a medium payroll team.

In 2013, the Orioles payroll was at $90 million. That's $30 million more than Oakland and $33 million more than Tampa. Despite all the grousing that happens here about Angelos's cheapness, we can still afford to do things that Tampa cannot do.

[PeteU]

I think you misunderstood me.

I agree with you. I am not saying it is what we should be, but it is how this team operates and must with the budget constraints.

In that case older players with value need to be dealt for cheaper younger players, not extended.

I know you agree with me. My criticism wasn't really directed towards you as much as it to those who insist we play Moneyball and consider selling off just about every asset we have for the latest prospect fix.

[Can_of_corn]

I know you agree with me. My criticism wasn't really directed towards you as much as it to those who insist we play Moneyball and consider selling off just about every asset we have for the latest prospect fix.

It isn't "moneyball". It is being smart. You know what else Oakland and Tampa have in common?

Playoff berths last season.

If you can't buy premium talent, and you can't draft premium talent outside of the first round then how are you going to restock the team?

[Aristotelian]

Hardy, Davis , and Wieters should be priority 1 for the O's

You mean trading them? Machado is priority #1 for extending. He is a ways off but the most important.

[SteveO]

First off if Peralta got 4/53 from the Cards with all the stuff associated with him then 3/30 for JJ is a fantasy. JJ is going to get at least 3/45 more like 4/60 or more so long as he stays healthy and is reasonably productive this year.

I love JJ and would applaud an extension for him. I would not be happy however if that comes at the expense of acquiring pitching help or being able to make Manny an offer after next season. If we are going to continue to pretend like we are revenue poor and maintain a payroll in the 90 million range then JJ is a luxury that a team who has Manny Machado in the fold cannot afford. If the team decides to spend what it should based on its revenue streams then JJ is a guy they should definitely keep in the fold.

[canonfaz]

First off if Peralta got 4/53 from the Cards with all the stuff associated with him then 3/30 for JJ is a fantasy. JJ is going to get at least 3/45 more like 4/60 or more so long as he stays healthy and is reasonably productive this year.

I love JJ and would applaud an extension for him. I would not be happy however if that comes at the expense of acquiring pitching help or being able to make Manny an offer after next season. If we are going to continue to pretend like we are revenue poor and maintain a payroll in the 90 million range then JJ is a luxury that a team who has Manny Machado in the fold cannot afford. If the team decides to spend what it should based on its revenue streams then JJ is a guy they should definitely keep in the fold.

I don't disagree with your numbers, JJ would definitely beat the 4/53 on the open market, but sometimes guys just like the security of being with a specific team and manager and take less. A prime recent example would be Dustin Pedroia's last contract. He took way less to just stay with Boston, something around 8/100 I think.

[weams]

I feel like the majority of the posters on this board would have some sort of problem if the O's built a time machine and brought back Babe Ruth in his prime and signed him.

JJ Hardy was the starting shortstop for the AL All-Star Team last year. He's a great teammate and a fan favorite. He's seriously underrated.

Why not sign him? Because he's a little over 30? So we can move Machado to SS and then try to find a decent third baseman - ultimately ending up signing someone a little over 30 to fill that gap?

Come on...

I would be happy with an extension.

[Redskins Rick]

I would be happy with an extension.

COTS rates his current contract a steal, if the dollars can be worked out, I think its a no brainer to bring him back, he is only 31 year. Geeze, every time I read he is too old and stuff, makes me feel ancient. Which I am, but thats beside the point.

Sign him for three years, keep Manny at 3rd and worry about the other positions on the diamond.

[OFFNY]

.

In hindsight, the Orioles definitely got their money's worth from Hardy when MacPhail signed him to a 3-year, $22.5 Million extension back in 2011.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6781753/jj-hardy-signs-3-year-extension-baltimore-orioles

I hope that in 2016 or 2017, we can look back and say the same thing if Duquette does the same.

[Ripken]

Even if we extend Davis, Machado, Wieters, and Hardy, which I'd be very happy about, we're short of talent unless the latest Calvary *really* produces...

[SteveO]

Yes, his last contract was a steal. Be happy with that. No need to do the opposite now and even things out. Hardy has been healthy and productive for 3 years now. I don't like pressing our luck and hoping for 4 more at market or close to market rates. Duquette wasn't sentimental with Jim Johnson. I hope he isn't with Hardy either. If he has a another good year, make the qualifying offer and take the pick. Let someone else risk 12-14M a year on his age 32-34,35 seasons. The Orioles should/could have an infield of Flaherty/Machado/Schoop to start 2015. Young and cheap. Hardy's money to be spent in other areas.

Dead on.

I love JJ but I like having a competent pitching staff

[Bradysburns]

There are very few "right guys" on the FA market. "Young enough to grow with Jones and company" means under 30, yes? Who have been the big ticket free agents younger than 30 in recent years? Just about everybody available this year was on the wrong side of 30. Ellsbury, Choo, Cano, etc. All those guys are too old to meet your definition. Maybe Prince Fielder? Mark Teixeira? Neither of those contracts look that great right now.

What has happened in the last decade is that teams are becoming much more aggressive about locking up the best players long term, before they ever reach FA. This is why every year the big money teams chase aging players with bad contracts: Pujols, Hamilton, Werth, Ellsbury, etc. If the Orioles are priced out of that market it is probably for the best.

What the Orioles need to do is to draft and trade for young talent, and then pick the right players to sign to long-term deals. The most important decisions the team has to make this year are not which overrated veteran they give a lot of money to, but rather whether, and for how much, they lock up any of their own guys (Davis, Wieters, Hardy, and down the road, Machado).

Very astute post, Crawjo. And I think it makes a lot of sense. Picking the right players to resign, however, requires you to have great players in the first place - or at least players worth resigning. Why be rigid about your approach, though? Fact is, we can afford to add players who will make this good team better. And we're really close to competing for the division, but we absolutely will not do it this year without additional talent - especially when the Yankees and Sox continue to pile up talent. They just throw high-priced bodies at us and there's little we can do to dig out, at some point.

To me, not resigning Nate was a mistake. That's a "right" guy in my view. (And no, young enough to grow with Adam doesn't necessarily mean under 30 - ideally, yes, but Nate could play for a few more years.) Not resigning Feldman was probably a mistake. Yes, ideally you'd sign guys like Choo, who's 31 and could play here for the next 5 years. But also, I would look at pitchers. Two guys who belong on this team right now are Matt Garza and Ricky Nolasco, IMO. Yes, both come with risks, but both would be great additions to our rotation. And don't tell me we couldn't have afforded Nolasco.