Per the Sun: "Orioles most inactive team..."

[webbrick2010]

I don't see the point of signing Balfour... I hope it falls thru

The re-allocation should be to SP and LF, should sign Garza & Choo

or blow it up and go young and very cheap.

No way CD, MM, or even Wieters is stupid enough to extend with this team given their commitment(lack of) to winning.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

A business that the state built the stadium. Also financed the interstructure and highway upgrades. The Maryland Stadium Authority also did some of the upgrades to Camden Yards with tax exempt bonds,etc. Camden Yards was a publicly built stadium.

So what? Seems to me that PA was a pretty good business man to get those things done. Were any promises made, as to what his payroll would be going forward when these things were negotiated? Were there any provisions made, so that any group of a hundred or so message board posters should be able to dictate his spending? Did you protest those deals at the time? If so, I guess not hard enough. Did you not protest and trust him? If so, shame on you.

This board is a great place to talk and even argue about the Orioles. But it has become a place where a bunch of crybabies come to ***** and moan. Lets put it out there....

Peter Angelos owns this team. You don't. You never will. The Fans don't. The city of Baltimore doesn't. Nor will it ever. PA owes you Zero, nothing, nada. He owes the city nothing, zero, nada. He is a cold blooded businessman, that bought the team as a way to make money. Make money. I find it funny, that the same fan, that says that player A should make as much money as he can, doesn't feel the same about PA. Shouldn't he make as much money as he can? I mean if PA should make less money for the sake of the fans and the city, shouldn't JJ have done the same thing and agreed to a team friendly deal? Shouldn't Matt Wieters take much less money to stay in Baltimore when the time comes? Doesn't he owe the fans and the city? It is rubbish. The Orioles were 15th in team payroll last year. 5, count them 5 teams that made the playoffs, that is half the teams, had lower payrolls.

This place is starting to remind me of a warehouse at lunch break, where every fork lift operator is talking about how the CEO doesn't know how to run the company and he can do better.

[Redskins Rick]

Huh, entitled fans? Every professional team is a business, few pocket as much money as the Orioles while the team wallows in mediocrity or worse.

I get that sports is a business, but my feelings, if you are about the money, then go make money elsewhere and if you want to be a sport team owner, than commit the resources and be committed to the town, the team and the fans.

[Tony-OH]

So what? Seems to me that PA was a pretty good business man to get those things done. Were any promises made, as to what his payroll would be going forward when these things were negotiated? Were there any provisions made, so that any group of a hundred or so message board posters should be able to dictate his spending? Did you protest those deals at the time? If so, I guess not hard enough. Did you not protest and trust him? If so, shame on you.

This board is a great place to talk and even argue about the Orioles. But it has become a place where a bunch of crybabies come to ***** and moan. Lets put it out there....

Peter Angelos owns this team. You don't. You never will. The Fans don't. The city of Baltimore doesn't. Nor will it ever. PA owes you Zero, nothing, nada. He owes the city nothing, zero, nada. He is a cold blooded businessman, that bought the team as a way to make money. Make money. I find it funny, that the same fan, that says that player A should make as much money as he can, doesn't feel the same about PA. Shouldn't he make as much money as he can? I mean if PA should make less money for the sake of the fans and the city, shouldn't JJ have done the same thing and agreed to a team friendly deal? Shouldn't Matt Wieters take much less money to stay in Baltimore when the time comes? Doesn't he owe the fans and the city? It is rubbish. The Orioles were 15th in team payroll last year. 5, count them 5 teams that made the playoffs, that is half the teams, had lower payrolls.

This place is starting to remind me of a warehouse at lunch break, where every fork lift operator is talking about how the CEO doesn't know how to run the company and he can do better.

Something tells me you are familiar with a warehouse all right.

[Tony-OH]

I get that sports is a business, but my feelings, if you are about the money, then go make money elsewhere and if you want to be a sport team owner, than commit the resources and be committed to the town, the team and the fans.

That's the way most owners run things, unfortunately, we do not have one that cares about winning or the fans that have supports this team.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

Something tells me you are familiar with a warehouse all right.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't even like PA. But I don't count other peoples money. Nor should anyone.

[Redskins Rick]

So what? Seems to me that PA was a pretty good business man to get those things done. Were any promises made, as to what his payroll would be going forward when these things were negotiated? Were there any provisions made, so that any group of a hundred or so message board posters should be able to dictate his spending? Did you protest those deals at the time? If so, I guess not hard enough. Did you not protest and trust him? If so, shame on you.

This board is a great place to talk and even argue about the Orioles. But it has become a place where a bunch of crybabies come to ***** and moan. Lets put it out there....

Peter Angelos owns this team. You don't. You never will. The Fans don't. The city of Baltimore doesn't. Nor will it ever. PA owes you Zero, nothing, nada. He owes the city nothing, zero, nada. He is a cold blooded businessman, that bought the team as a way to make money. Make money. I find it funny, that the same fan, that says that player A should make as much money as he can, doesn't feel the same about PA. Shouldn't he make as much money as he can? I mean if PA should make less money for the sake of the fans and the city, shouldn't JJ have done the same thing and agreed to a team friendly deal? Shouldn't Matt Wieters take much less money to stay in Baltimore when the time comes? Doesn't he owe the fans and the city? It is rubbish. The Orioles were 15th in team payroll last year. 5, count them 5 teams that made the playoffs, that is half the teams, had lower payrolls.

This place is starting to remind me of a warehouse at lunch break, where every fork lift operator is talking about how the CEO doesn't know how to run the company and he can do better.

So since we are crybabies, what does that make you?

We want our team to win and be competitive, losing sucks, sorry if that offends you, but sports is a recreation and past-time for us.

So no matter what Angelos does wrong, like buy the building across from the church, so he can have his own close by parking spot, you will make excuses for him. Whatever.

Might want to try drinking the tap water and not the city water.

[hoosiers]

Aren't you an Orioles fan? What's new on how they are going about their business this off season? The only difference is we had hope that when we were close Angelos would spend the money to make us true contenders. We now know that is false. What we know now for 100% certainty that the Orioles are run like a business that is expected to turn a profit for Angelos and his investors. That extra $27 million and the $10 million from Roberts contract will look good when it comes out to giving out the dividends at the end of the year.

This is the way this team will be run as long as Angelos is the owner. We have to just deal with it on our own ways.

Two questions - one for the second time.

How close do you think the Os are? When I look at last year's standings, I see at team that finished tied for 8/9 out of the 15 American League teams competing for 5 playoff spots. That is not my definition of close, but I'd like to hear yours.

How much of the $27M do you believe should be re-invested into the team and how soon?

[centralpaosfan]

That's the way most owners run things, unfortunately, we do not have one that cares about winning or the fans that have supports this team.

PA is savvy enough to set up the business so he doesn't have to care about the fans or winning. He is getting money handed to him left and right; MLB for letting the Nationals come into his market, MASN and the extra 25 million from the MLB. He truly doesn't need to rely on having an engaged fan base to make a profit. He realizes there are enough people out there that will come to a ballgame regardless of the product on the field or come to support the opposition.

[25 Nuggets]

Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't even like PA. But I don't count other peoples money. Nor should anyone.

How exactly are we, as representatives of the paying customers supporting the Orioles franchise, counting other peoples' money?

[TouchemAll]

Aren't you an Orioles fan? What's new on how they are going about their business this off season? The only difference is we had hope that when we were close Angelos would spend the money to make us true contenders. We now know that is false. What we know now for 100% certainty that the Orioles are run like a business that is expected to turn a profit for Angelos and his investors. That extra $27 million and the $10 million from Roberts contract will look good when it comes out to giving out the dividends at the end of the year.

This is the way this team will be run as long as Angelos is the owner. We have to just deal with it on our own ways.

Yep :agree: NAIL MEET HAMMER

[Scrat1]

So what? Seems to me that PA was a pretty good business man to get those things done. Were any promises made, as to what his payroll would be going forward when these things were negotiated? Were there any provisions made, so that any group of a hundred or so message board posters should be able to dictate his spending? Did you protest those deals at the time? If so, I guess not hard enough. Did you not protest and trust him? If so, shame on you.

This board is a great place to talk and even argue about the Orioles. But it has become a place where a bunch of crybabies come to ***** and moan. Lets put it out there....

Peter Angelos owns this team. You don't. You never will. The Fans don't. The city of Baltimore doesn't. Nor will it ever. PA owes you Zero, nothing, nada. He owes the city nothing, zero, nada. He is a cold blooded businessman, that bought the team as a way to make money. Make money. I find it funny, that the same fan, that says that player A should make as much money as he can, doesn't feel the same about PA. Shouldn't he make as much money as he can? I mean if PA should make less money for the sake of the fans and the city, shouldn't JJ have done the same thing and agreed to a team friendly deal? Shouldn't Matt Wieters take much less money to stay in Baltimore when the time comes? Doesn't he owe the fans and the city? It is rubbish. The Orioles were 15th in team payroll last year. 5, count them 5 teams that made the playoffs, that is half the teams, had lower payrolls.

This place is starting to remind me of a warehouse at lunch break, where every fork lift operator is talking about how the CEO doesn't know how to run the company and he can do better.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Angelos doesn't know how to run a business. He's clearly very competent on the business side of things. But a sports team is unusual from most other businesses because your consumer base is sticky. In the normal marketplace if (A) makes a hamburger and (B) makes a better hamburger, (A) will soon lose business to (B). This is obvious. But with sports its not the same. Consumers of TEAM (A) are probably not going to abandon TEAM (A) just because (B) and © and (D) all make a better product.

Because the consumers of a sports team, its fanbase, are much more loyal than consumers of just about any other type of company, it's not unreasonable to suggest ownership, contrary to what you assert, does indeed owe its fanbase something. Otherwise, he's simply exploiting their loyalty for the sake of his own enrichment. That Angelos does not seem to give two ****s about his customers is why so many people around here are fired up.

It's not all that useful to complain about all the time, especially when it starts to permeate every single discussion on the board, but it's definitely understandable.

[Camden_yardbird]

If there was a conversation between PA and Dan shortly after last season where PA said to Dan something to effect of:

PA: Dan, I need you to cut payroll next year, and not commit to any more contracts after 2015.

DD: why?

PA: I need to decrease the debits on the accounting sheets to prepare for the sale of the team.

Would you be happy or sad?

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that this team is trying to minimize payroll in advance of 2016:

Wieters and Davis have not been approached regarding extensions.

Webb was signed to a 2-year deal.

The team won't go to three years for Balfour.

I don't its true, but it is a possible hypothesis given what we are seeing.

[OFFNY]

.

In 2 separate threads that were started before the start and at the conclusion of the 2013 season respectively, posters suggested that the Ghosts of 1998-2011 have been officially exorcised:

Ia the Oriole Stigma Gone?

(THREAD STARTED ON JANUARY 27th, 2013)

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/129886-Is-the-Oriole-stigma-gone

Safe to say, the Ghosts of 1998-2011 have Officially been Exorcised:

(THREAD STARTED ON SEPTEMBER 30th, 2013)

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/136812-Safe-to-say-the-ghosts-of-1998-2011-have-officially-been-exorcised

I don't agree with that, although I certainly think that we are on the verge of it. I think that it is particularly true in light of the numerous recent threads in which posters have debated with each other in regard to the actions/inactions of the front office so far during this off-season, and to the level of commitment (or lack of commitment) to winning that our owner and our general manager are showing.

In the latter stages of our 14-year streak of losing seasons, I stated that it would take at least 3 consecutive winning seasons to completely erase the reputation of the loser franchise that we had throughout baseball. And if we were able to do that, then big-time free agents would not avoid us like the plague, or at the very least, wouldn't immediately rule out the possibility of signing with the Orioles, regardless of whatever money that we might offer them. Perhaps more significantly, solid players wouldn't necessarily cringe at the thought of being traded to the Orioles, and Oriole fans would not immediately have the knee-jerk reaction of "Same old Orioles" when a big-time free agents signs with another team that either outbid the Orioles, or for whom the Orioles did not even bid at all for.

I still believe that to be true. I think that we need to have another winning season in 2014 to completely erase the loserdom reputation that we have had throughout baseball (and, in the minds of Oriole fans) for quite some time prior to the 2012 season.

And if and when we do clinch our 3rd consecutive winning season in 2014, then I think that the fierce debates in regard to the commitment/lack of commitment to winning by the Orioles' front office will ........ continue, just as they have.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

No way I can rest this all on PA. I am sure the budget DD is working with is not conducive to an AL East Championship. That being said, its Duquette's job to improve the club. Under Duquette's reign of terror, we are worse then last year and we were worse last year, than in 2012. All of this with the same owner.

So.....Yes I blame Duquette. It is quite obvious to me that he has no creativity when it comes to trading and with PA not giving him the budget to acquire a few free agents, its just a bad match.

Tell me you have confidence in Duquette to improve this club?

To be fair, a lot of that had to do with the Betemit injury which DD had no control over. If he doesn't go down, the offense would have been much better than it already was.