Like Father Like Son Angelos Family

[Redskins Rick]

Or the Chicago Blackhawks with rocky wirtz.

Which is why I said most, I haven't run the numbers, but I would go out on a limb and say it probably doesn't work 75% of the time.

The thing with sons, they usually dont have the same business sense, they are not self-made, they haven't succeed on their own in business, like most of their daddies did before owning a football team, and they wear the chip of entitlement on their shoulde.

[Flosman]

I am not one to join in on the bashing PA sessions. I think the club is dramatically run better today than it was 5 years ago and at any point in PAs ownership. I think the AM hire was very good. What can you say about Buck? great hire. I think DD has done a good job and the next 24 months will be his legacy. I think the organization is better at Judging talent and the value of talent and I think they are better at developing guys than they were.

However, They are being tight right now like money is a major concern. I don't think they are greedy guys bathing in their money. I also don't think they are dumb. So why is the growth in revenues not allowing PA to loosen the purse strings a little? The team is winning, it looks to be run by some smart guys. The only thing I come up with is it is part of the family's estate planning. Somebody is coming up with a huge nut when PA passes. If the sons want to hold on to the club your looking at somewhere around 200 million plus on the O's assets. I am sure they have worked to get the liability down but it is still going to be huge. We know the club was leveraged enough a couple of years ago to be noticed that they were out of compliance with the MLB partnership covenants. That does not help when faced with the Estate taxes and had to be a concern for the family.

I know this does not make it better this off season but maybe the sons will actually be better owners if the tax issue is handled well. I guess my point is we really don't know what kind of owners they would be. PA seems to have positioned the club well with competent management and with the MASN deal. So I am not going to give up hope that things might get better post PA.

[mcgraw238]

I am not one to join in on the bashing PA sessions. I think the club is dramatically run better today than it was 5 years ago and at any point in PAs ownership. I think the AM hire was very good. What can you say about Buck? great hire. I think DD has done a good job and the next 24 months will be his legacy. I think the organization is better at Judging talent and the value of talent and I think they are better at developing guys than they were.

However, They are being tight right now like money is a major concern. I don't think they are greedy guys bathing in their money. I also don't think they are dumb. So why is the growth in revenues not allowing PA to loosen the purse strings a little? The team is winning, it looks to be run by some smart guys. The only thing I come up with is it is part of the family's estate planning. Somebody is coming up with a huge nut when PA passes. If the sons want to hold on to the club your looking at somewhere around 200 million plus on the O's assets. I am sure they have worked to get the liability down but it is still going to be huge. We know the club was leveraged enough a couple of years ago to be noticed that they were out of compliance with the MLB partnership covenants. That does not help when faced with the Estate taxes and had to be a concern for the family.

I know this does not make it better this off season but maybe the sons will actually be better owners if the tax issue is handled well. I guess my point is we really don't know what kind of owners they would be. PA seems to have positioned the club well with competent management and with the MASN deal. So I am not going to give up hope that things might get better post PA.

Estate taxes should not be a concern if PA has done the correct planning. He could put his O's stock in a series of Grantor Retained Annuity Trusts (GRATs) and move substantial amounts of O's stock out of his estate. I won't get into the mechanics of a GRAT but you can check it out on Google. In fact, the needed liquidity to pay dividends on the GRAT structure is probably why there seems to be a cap on payroll. Billionaires that properly plan don't get hit by the estate tax. This $200 million plus estate tax bill that is brought up from time to time will not materialize unless PA has failed to do the proper planning.

[MrOrange82]

Regardless of the conclusions drawn by the OP, the idea that anyone could be other-than-repulsed by the idea of another Angelos running the Orioles for the next 20+ years is simply incomprehensible to me.

[mdbdotcom]

Let's brand him as a failure before he even has a chance to succeed. That's productive.

[mi_oriolesfan]

Does anyone even know if John Angelos is exactly like his father? That's not a jab at Birdland or anyone else; I'm genuinely curious. I've heard John mentioned before but don't know anything about him personally other than what everyone here as said.

[Redskins Rick]

Does anyone even know if John Angelos is exactly like his father? That's not a jab at Birdland or anyone else; I'm genuinely curious. I've heard John mentioned before but don't know anything about him personally other than what everyone here as said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Angelos

Not too much about him in the news, seen this, and if you just read this, and not know his daddy, you think this guy has it going on.

[Orioles4Life21]

Four trips to the playoffs and one world series in 31 seasons should be enough for any fan?

I guess if my son wants to see the Orioles win the world series, he has to wait until I assume room temperature in the interest of fairness. After all, I've been alive for all three, even though I had just started kindergarten during the first one. Hopefully the people who were only around for 1983 also get one or two more after I'm gone.

The Orioles had the playoff dice in their hands once since 1997. Fans deserve another roll at the craps table instead of ....well, just crap.

4 trips in 31 years. That is just god awful. We all deserve better.

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[Redskins Rick]

4 Trips? LOL

Ask a cub fan about that.

[Flosman]

Estate taxes should not be a concern if PA has done the correct planning. He could put his O's stock in a series of Grantor Retained Annuity Trusts (GRATs) and move substantial amounts of O's stock out of his estate. I won't get into the mechanics of a GRAT but you can check it out on Google. In fact, the needed liquidity to pay dividends on the GRAT structure is probably why there seems to be a cap on payroll. Billionaires that properly plan don't get hit by the estate tax. This $200 million plus estate tax bill that is brought up from time to time will not materialize unless PA has failed to do the proper planning.

You still have the same effect with a drain on cash in order to get the tax benefit. I understand that they are going to do everything they can to pay as little as allowed but it is still a major concern and there is no way to avoid or pay the tax that does not require cash or near cash assets and a lot in a case like PA's. Heck are you not looking at in the area of 100 million per year relating to the required annuity payments on an estate of that size?

[Hank Scorpio]

Generally speaking, I think this crap is overblown.

But then again, it's January and there's nothing to talk about. Wake me up in like 45 days.

[Can_of_corn]

Four trips to the playoffs and one world series in 31 seasons should be enough for any fan?

I guess if my son wants to see the Orioles win the world series, he has to wait until I assume room temperature in the interest of fairness. After all, I've been alive for all three, even though I had just started kindergarten during the first one. Hopefully the people who were only around for 1983 also get one or two more after I'm gone.

The Orioles had the playoff dice in their hands once since 1997. Fans deserve another roll at the craps table instead of ....well, just crap.

I didn't say anything about the playoffs. Sustained success should mean trips to the playoffs.

I was talking about winning titles.

[Orioles4Life21]

4 Trips? LOL

Ask a cub fan about that.

Hey even the Cubs have been to the playoffs more than us in those 31 years. 6 times if my calculations are correct. If not for Bartman and an untimely error by Alex Gonzalez, they would have been in the World Series in 2003.

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[Can_of_corn]

Regardless of the conclusions drawn by the OP, the idea that anyone could be other-than-repulsed by the idea of another Angelos running the Orioles for the next 20+ years is simply incomprehensible to me.

Irsay's spawn turned out to be a decent owner.

[Redskins Rick]

Irsay's spawn turned out to be a decent owner.

Do I hear an echo in here?