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Boras & Wieters v. Smouse?

TonySoprano

By TonySoprano
in Orioles Talk

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Why are you so set on trading Davis?
No need to trade him. Chris might stay.

I would trade Davis because they are not willing to make the commitment necessary to build around him. What do you think it takes to extend him now? I saw a different Davis last year, but prior to that we're talking about a guy who had accumulated less than 1 WAR in over 1,600 PA. Even if you think he can be a .900 OPS guy for the next 5 years, which he never approached before last year, an extension still requires an increase in payroll.

If we can find a team willing to value him at closer to his 2013 season, then we can get good, cheap, cost controlled players to fill multiple gaps in our roster. You then use that savings to lock up Manny, or at least attempt to lock him up. Maybe try to buy out a few years of FA for Tillman.

The bottom line is that unless PA is willing to raise the max budget from 100M, to around 120-125M (where it reasonably should be) then signing Davis is a poor idea. You don't give a guy like that at least 1/5 of your budget, especially when there are so many holes on the team.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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I would trade Davis because they are not willing to make the commitment necessary to build around him. What do you think it takes to extend him now? I saw a different Davis last year, but prior to that we're talking about a guy who had accumulated less than 1 WAR in over 1,600 PA. Even if you think he can be a .900 OPS guy for the next 5 years, which he never approached before last year, an extension still requires an increase in payroll.

If we can find a team willing to value him at closer to his 2013 season, then we can get good, cheap, cost controlled players to fill multiple gaps in our roster. You then use that savings to lock up Manny, or at least attempt to lock him up. Maybe try to buy out a few years of FA for Tillman.

The bottom line is that unless PA is willing to raise the max budget from 100M, to around 120-125M (where it reasonably should be) then signing Davis is a poor idea. You don't give a guy like that at least 1/5 of your budget, especially when there are so many holes on the team.

I disagree. That is exactly where you spend he big money. On a corner power bat in the prime of his career. You pinch the pennies in the bullpen and on the defensive positions. There are not many guys who do what Chris did last year. And even fewer of them who do them like Chris does.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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I disagree. That is exactly where you spend he big money. On a corner power bat in the prime of his career. You pinch the pennies in the bullpen and on the defensive positions. There are not many guys who do what Chris did last year. And even fewer of them who do them like Chris does.

You have a lot more faith than I do in Chris being able to replicate his 2013 season. I think he's closer to the .850-.900 OPS guy, which is worth something, but nowhere near what he'd sign. I agree about cutting costs in the pen, but this team seems to have no plan to do that. It's just cobble something together for this year, and make no attempt to figure out the upcoming years.

Every word that he has said about the prospect. That is why. He loves Buck and he loves it here. He's been elsewhere. He knows what that can be about.

I think that is mostly just playing the media game. You don't hire Boras as your agent unless you're trying to maximize your one big payout.

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MrOrange82 Hangout Grand Counsel

MrOrange82

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You have a lot more faith than I do in Chris being able to replicate his 2013 season. I think he's closer to the .850-.900 OPS guy, which is worth something, but nowhere near what he'd sign. I agree about cutting costs in the pen, but this team seems to have no plan to do that. It's just cobble something together for this year, and make no attempt to figure out the upcoming years.

I think that is mostly just playing the media game. You don't hire Boras as your agent unless you're trying to maximize your one big payout.

Given that 2013 was a "breakout" season for Davis, I think you have to offer him something like 7/126 just to see what he says. Now. Before 2014 puts him in $20 million+ per year territory beyond a reasonable doubt. At the very least, it'd be a show of faith from the Orioles, and it'd gauge his intentions going forward.

For my part, I think he'll easily be worth such a contract. He's extremely dedicated to his physical conditioning, and an .850-.900 OPS guy who plays solid defense would certainly stand to earn that much on the open market.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Given that 2013 was a "breakout" season for Davis, I think you have to offer him something like 7/126 just to see what he says. Now. Before 2014 puts him in $20 million+ per year territory beyond a reasonable doubt. At the very least, it'd be a show of faith from the Orioles, and it'd gauge his intentions going forward.

For my part, I think he'll easily be worth such a contract. He's extremely dedicated to his physical conditioning, and an .850-.900 OPS guy who plays solid defense would certainly stand to earn that much on the open market.

It's one thing to say what he would be worth as a FA. It's another thing to try to fit it into the budget of a team that has shown ZERO interest in increasing payroll. Even if he's willing to sign for 18M per year, are you willing to let him take up about 1/5 of your budget. What do we do when we want to extend Manny? Or Tillman? Ownership would have to make available the funds, now, for me to want to even look into extending Chris.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Given that 2013 was a "breakout" season for Davis, I think you have to offer him something like 7/126 just to see what he says. Now. Before 2014 puts him in $20 million+ per year territory beyond a reasonable doubt. At the very least, it'd be a show of faith from the Orioles, and it'd gauge his intentions going forward.

For my part, I think he'll easily be worth such a contract. He's extremely dedicated to his physical conditioning, and an .850-.900 OPS guy who plays solid defense would certainly stand to earn that much on the open market.

Does that 7/$126 include this season?

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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You have a lot more faith than I do in Chris being able to replicate his 2013 season. I think he's closer to the .850-.900 OPS guy, which is worth something, but nowhere near what he'd sign. I agree about cutting costs in the pen, but this team seems to have no plan to do that. It's just cobble something together for this year, and make no attempt to figure out the upcoming years.

I think that is mostly just playing the media game. You don't hire Boras as your agent unless you're trying to maximize your one big payout.

When did he hire Scott?

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MrOrange82 Hangout Grand Counsel

MrOrange82

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It's one thing to say what he would be worth as a FA. It's another thing to try to fit it into the budget of a team that has shown ZERO interest in increasing payroll. Even if he's willing to sign for 18M per year, are you willing to let him take up about 1/5 of your budget. What do we do when we want to extend Manny? Or Tillman? Ownership would have to make available the funds, now, for me to want to even look into extending Chris.

You'd essentially be trading Nick's salary for Davis', tacking on a few million, and Chris is exactly the kind of player for whom we'd been hoping for years (e.g., Teixeira). Granted, you still have to pay guys like Manny and Tillman in the interim, but at least they're controlled through 2019 and 2018, respectively.

Does that 7/$126 include this season?

Since he's already signed for this season, I was thinking that an extension would kick in for 2015 onward. I don't love the idea of paying him that much for his 34/35 year old seasons, but the Orioles would be getting off light relative to most "major" FA contracts, IMO.

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