Do you think Schoop will be traded?

[skanar]

I've been pushing Schoop for a while, so I'm not hoping to see him traded. But if Hardy is resigned, it seems at least possible.

On the other hand, Ryan Flaherty is probably going to top out at 2 WAR, and usually going to be 1-1.5, I think. That's a good player, but not one you HAVE to plan your team around. 3B Machado, SS Hardy, 2B Schoop with Flaherty as the UTIF in, say, 2015/16 is perfectly reasonable.

[Can_of_corn]

How much better than a 2 WAR player to you envision Schoop being?

One that is at least two full seasons further away from arbitration.

[Can_of_corn]

That wasn't really my question. In his scenario he has Schoop as the starting 2B with Flaherty as a utility IF, mainly because I think the sees Schoop as a significantly better player. I was trying to find out how much better he envisions him being, not that he would be cheaper in 2 years or 3 years.

It bothers me a lot that almost all of Flaherty's value came from a partial season's worth of glove work that was a lot better then any of us had any reason to expect.

[skanar]

How much better than a 2 WAR player to you envision Schoop being?

Probably not much, but he definitely has a small chance to be much, much better. He's had partial success at very advanced levels for his (very young) age. It's entirely possible that Schoop could put up 4-5 WAR seasons - not likely, but possible. Flaherty does not have that upside.

Even if he ends up as a 1-2 WAR player, he'll do so at a cheaper cost that Flaherty. Regardless, I think it's worth taking the risk that he Schoop flops to see if he ends up as the next Brandon Phillips or Robinson Cano.

[Moose Milligan]

How many at bats do you guys think Schoop gets in Baltimore this year?

[CA-ORIOLE]

It bothers me a lot that almost all of Flaherty's value came from a partial season's worth of glove work that was a lot better then any of us had any reason to expect.

Ehh, rWAR had Flaherty at 1 WAR and rated less defensively than fWAR last year. Maybe a +7.5 rate per 150 as compared to fangraphs +14 rate. While not additive, the oWAR and dWAR components split evenly. He really wasn't that far off from being above "average" offensively for a second baseman last year, maybe 9 or 10 points in woba and I think he can improve offensively. The offensive threshold isn't that high at 2b. I'm with RZ that he looks above average defensively at second to me.

[weams]

Ehh, rWAR had Flaherty at 1 WAR and rated less defensively than fWAR last year. Maybe a +7.5 rate per 150 as compared to fangraphs +14 rate. While not additive, the oWAR and dWAR comments split evenly. He really wasn't that far off from being above "average" offensively for a second baseman last year, maybe 9 or 10 points in woba and I think he can improve offensively. The offensive threshold isn't that high at 2b. I'm with RZ that he looks above average defensively at second to me.

I think we agree here.

[Bundy]

Schoops offensive numbers through the minors are very similar to those of Manny. I would no way trade him at this point. Who is to say he can't come to Baltimore and have the same success that Manny has.

Plus, I don't have much confidence in Flaherty.

[BradyBunch]

I've never been high on Flaherty and see him as a Utility guy only. He can fill in at 3 or 4 position in the infield if need be. But he's not an every day player.

Flaherty will disappoint us this year majorly if he plays every day just like he left a big stink on the field last year with his sub .250 BA and his sub .300 OBP. He'd have to wow me with numbers greater then .280 BA and .333 or higher OPB.. something Flaherty has NEVER been close to doing outside of A ball.

Now I am assuming we still have options on Flaherty.. if we do, maybe he should get some time in AAA and play a bit of 3rd just in case Hardy isn't or doesn't want to resign.

Schoop on the other hand can provide those things and has proved it in his quick run up to GCL to the Majors. I'd give Schoop a month or two at Norfolk if he's not ready out of ST. But he should be playing 2nd base for us this year. He's a solid option and does have chance to be a star for the O's in the future. But he can't do worse then Flaherty did last year imho.

To trade Schoop would be CRAZY even for a TOR pitcher (Cliff Lee). Cliff Lee has a contract that would make most of us cry. $25m per year for the next two years for Lee and a vesting option of $27.5m in 2016 and a buyout option of $12.5m if pitches 200 innings in 2015 or 400 in 2014/2015. He's 35 and 3 years (or less) of use would be the Glenn Davis trade of the 21st century. Btw, doesn't Lee have a no-trade clause which includes the O's as one of the teams he would have to approve of?

[CA-ORIOLE]

I've never been high on Flaherty and see him as a Utility guy only. He can fill in at 3 or 4 position in the infield if need be. But he's not an every day player.

Flaherty will disappoint us this year majorly if he plays every day just like he left a big stink on the field last year with his sub .250 BA and his sub .300 OBP. He'd have to wow me with numbers greater then .280 BA and .333 or higher OPB.. something Flaherty has NEVER been close to doing outside of A ball.

You might want to check your stats again. He has easily surpassed those numbers in AA.

[BradyBunch]

You might want to check your stats again. He has easily surpassed those numbers in AA.

Should be AA, not A..but you are correct he had that outlier year in AA with the Cubs. He's a AA player. Not a AAA player or even close to a major league player. But hey defend him if you need to. I am sure he'll need someone riding the pine with him.

[Il BuonO]

Should be AA, not A..but you are correct he had that outlier year in AA with the Cubs. He's a AA player. Not a AAA player or even close to a major league player. But hey defend him if you need to. I am sure he'll need someone riding the pine with him.

I really don't get this line of thinking. I'm on record stating in what areas he needs to improve, but there's no doubt Flaherty possesses a ML caliber skill set defensively. And before you dismiss that remember Earl carried Belanger for years with the same philosophy. If you have a strong enough team then you can make up for the deficiencies of certain players and we certainly were not lacking in offense last year.

If nothing else, Flaherty will have a nice career as UIF who provides a LHB with decent pop off the bench. I've gotten used to the idea that he's a ML ballplayer and one who provides value because of his flexibility. That isn't something that is easily found in many players.

[Frobby]

Flaherty is a risk, but he has .750 OPS upside IMO. He'll get the chance to prove it for a few months.

[weams]

Should be AA, not A..but you are correct he had that outlier year in AA with the Cubs. He's a AA player. Not a AAA player or even close to a major league player. But hey defend him if you need to. I am sure he'll need someone riding the pine with him.

I disagree with your assessment of Ryan. A lot of projections have him doing much more than you are willing to consider.

[Frobby]

I disagree with your assessment of Ryan. A lot of projections have him doing much more than you are willing to consider.

It's worth noting that Brian Roberts had an OPS of .624 and then .605 in his first two stints in the major leagues covering about 441 PA. Granted, he was a little younger than Flaherty (23-24 compared to 25-26), but Flaherty has done a little better than BRob did in his first two stints (.617 and .683 in 438 PA). I don't see a reason why Flaherty coulodn't continue to improve, he'll just have to prove it on the field.