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Does Jeter's pending retirement raise the price of a JJ Hardy extension?


Frobby

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I wouldn't suggest correcting Stotle on something like that.

And btw fielding percentage is worth even less when looking at a minor leaguers' defense then it does a major leaguer.

I am not correcting him. Just saying I disagree with Baseball Prospectus analysis. I think they under rate his speed and his agility because he "fits" the big guy mold. Same type of analysis that tried to pigeon hole Cano to 3rd.

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I don't believe you are permitted to put weight qualifiers in the contract -- and I am certain no player would agree to something that says (if you get fat you don't get all your money).

Carlos Lee, Bengie Molina, and Jose Lopez all had clauses dealing with weight. Bengie Molina deal included forced "Athletic Performance Training Program" which the club paid for and was mandatory.

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I just hope Schoop can make it in the big leagues, and this is certainly no guarantee. A lot of people seem to be taking this for granted, but he may not pan out...let's remember that not all prospects ranked like him do He's very young and has been aggressively promoted through the system, so maybe he just needs more time. This year is critical, but here's how he's done so far:

A+ Level: 83 games, 351 PAs, 701 OPS

AA Level: 124 games, 555 PAs, 710 OPS

AAA Level: 70 games, 289 PAs, 697 OPS

Based on these numbers, it certainly seems he's not ready for MLB yet. Hopefully, he can develop further in Norfolk this year and be a valuable component in the future. I'm not sure I would be making definitive plans for the near future based on him being a productive starter though.

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If this thread is still about extending Hardy, I think he is not a guy who wants to play in NY. I think he is interested in staying in one place for as many years as he can. That means a NTC and years, more than a high AAV. If the O's aren't that team what other teams might qualify?

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Carlos Lee, Bengie Molina, and Jose Lopez all had clauses dealing with weight. Bengie Molina deal included forced "Athletic Performance Training Program" which the club paid for and was mandatory.

I retract my statement -- I had in mind stuff like significant portion of salary being tied to weight. Maybe you agree to that if no one wants you and you need to convince someone to give you a chance. I don't think Sandoval will be in that boat. I could be wrong.

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Why should we care? Hardy isn't going anywhere this year.
Well if there aren't any other suitable locations, it would be all that easier to extend him, wouldn't it? Every one is saying he's going to cost us big bucks because he can be a Yankee. Well, suppose he doesn't want to be a Yankee, some don't, you know. AJ Burnett didn't even want to be in the same division with them. So who's our competition?>
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Nah, he's pretty average today. He's ahead of most in the minor leagues statistically at 2nd carrying a .972 Fielding %. Hell, a GG named Brandon Phillips carried a .975 Fielding % in the minors.
I am not correcting him. Just saying I disagree with Baseball Prospectus analysis. I think they under rate his speed and his agility because he "fits" the big guy mold. Same type of analysis that tried to pigeon hole Cano to 3rd.

Wow, the lower-half seems kind of stiff/clunky to drop the agility card, but we'll see how it plays out. I am not sure where the Cano comment comes from -- I have always said he could play short.

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In about 8 years in the minor leagues Mora had played 114 games a 3B total. In his first 5 yeas in the majors he started a total of 2 games at 3B. In his 6th year, he started 137 games at 3B and played a decent 3B. B.J. Surhoff played a total of 2 games at 3B in the minors. Over his first 5 ML seasons he started a total of 40 games at 3B, with 2 in 1991 and 1 in 1992, before assuming the fulltime 3B job for the Brewers in 1993.

So, Mora had games at 3rd base and was switching from SS to 3rd. Not a hard move considering it's typical the position where the old SS go to retire.

Surhoff actually had closer 70 games in MLB at 3rd before his move. In 1987 and 1988 he had 41 games alone. But this is where you are about to prove my point. Look at Surhoff's fielding % in 1993 (full season) and 1994 (injury season), both were sub .950. Then in 1995 Brewers stuck him out in the OF and 1B for the whole season. Positions were screwing up really takes alot. Then the O's stuck Surhoff at 3rd in 1996. He committed 14 errors and was sub .950 again. Come 1997 where was Surhoff? LF.

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I just hope Schoop can make it in the big leagues, and this is certainly no guarantee. A lot of people seem to be taking this for granted, but he may not pan out...let's remember that not all prospects ranked like him do He's very young and has been aggressively promoted through the system, so maybe he just needs more time. This year is critical, but here's how he's done so far:

A+ Level: 83 games, 351 PAs, 701 OPS

AA Level: 124 games, 555 PAs, 710 OPS

AAA Level: 70 games, 289 PAs, 697 OPS

Based on these numbers, it certainly seems he's not ready for MLB yet. Hopefully, he can develop further in Norfolk this year and be a valuable component in the future. I'm not sure I would be making definitive plans for the near future based on him being a productive starter though.

He spent 2 months on the DL during mid season in AAA. Getting back to speed and such points to the lower OPS.

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Wow, the lower-half seems kind of stiff/clunky to drop the agility card, but we'll see how it plays out. I am not sure where the Cano comment comes from -- I have always said he could play short.

I just think he's under-rated in the agility cat. I don't doubt he can play short. But that's Manny's to lose and you won't see me arguing against putting Manny there if JJ is gone.

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I retract my statement -- I had in mind stuff like significant portion of salary being tied to weight. Maybe you agree to that if no one wants you and you need to convince someone to give you a chance. I don't think Sandoval will be in that boat. I could be wrong.

Nah, salary is "untouchable". Wish it wasn't. I am sure when Sandoval hits the market or resigns with the Giants it will be a big sticking point, especially if that type of money is tossed around.

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Switching from SS to 3B is a natural even according to you. Maybe you missed the part where Schoop has played more games at SS than any other position in the minors.

And Melvin Mora was less than a SS than Schoop. In a long minor league career he had a total of 67 games at SS with the bulk of his time (480 games) coming in the outfield. Melinv Mora was a jack of all trades, sometimes SS, when he made the full time move to 3B.

Yes, for SS who've played close to 1000 games plus.

Seriously have you guys even looked at Statistics?

Mora was a career .961 Field % at 3rd. While he ranks 57th in baseball history. He only had 3 seasons in which his dwar was greater then 0 at 3rd. Owar + Dwar = WAR. I use that simple formula to see if O's made improvements or not. Mclouth last year using that was 1 WAR. Lough last year using that was 2.3 WAR.

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Yes, for SS who've played close to 1000 games plus.

Seriously have you guys even looked at Statistics?

Mora was a career .961 Field % at 3rd. While he ranks 57th in baseball history. He only had 3 seasons in which his dwar was greater then 0 at 3rd.

You are not going to prove your point by citing fielding percentage.

Nick had a fine fielding percentage last season, I do not think he was a good outfielder.

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Owar + Dwar = WAR. I use that simple formula to see if O's made improvements or not.

Actually, this is not a true statement. Take Lough, for example. oWAR 1.0, dWAR 1.3, total WAR 2.7. How's that math working for ya?

The reason is that both oWAR and dWAR contain an adjustment for which position the player plays, and if you added them together you would be counting the positional adjustment twice.

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You are not going to prove your point by citing fielding percentage.

Nick had a fine fielding percentage last season, I do not think he was a good outfielder.

I am not citing fielding % rather making a point. I look at Dwar.. and Nick has been costing the O's wins (1 win a year) since 2008 for every 3 WAR he put up he screw the pooch in the field by 1 WAR. Start adding those up for players on the team and that's the difference between making the playoffs and not. Which is why I have no problem with Nick being shown the door. He's not with the $17m.

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