Did Dan have a plan all along?

[LookinUp]

I believe you that the FO may have had something like this in mind, and maybe this exactly. But that doesn't mean this is a good plan for pushing Baltimore from where it was in 2013 to a serious playoff contender. Maybe an "if he hit on one of the big upside guys and don't have anyone significant get injured or regress, we should be in the conversation in the second half" kind of team. Just seems like that's aiming sights rather low.

I actually think that (or something similar) was the plan. It would have kept the O's in the conversation while DD continues his long rebuild. Jimenez and Cruz are a fascinating turn of events, but I'm thinking they generate more conversation than wins if the alternative was Burnett, Balfour and a solidish DH.

Let it be said that I'm happy with how things worked out. I gave DD a B+. Personally, I'm not even sure what I'd have preferred. Burnett and Jimenez were the two guys I wanted this offseason (one of them). Cruz was a cherry on top because of the pick being a #2. It was crazy how this all came together. Very logical, but not necessarily the original plan IMO.

[Stotle]

Yes I am. It wasn't without a cost certainly, although that depends on how much you value the picks he gave up.

That makes sense. If you think this is a playoff team I can totally see endorsing the plan as laid out, and as executed with supposed audibles.

[Stotle]

I actually think that (or something similar) was the plan. It would have kept the O's in the conversation while DD continues his long rebuild. Jimenez and Cruz are a fascinating turn of events, but I'm thinking they generate more conversation than wins if the alternative was Burnett, Balfour and a solidish DH.

Let it be said that I'm happy with how things worked out. I gave DD a B+. Personally, I'm not even sure what I'd have preferred. Burnett and Jimenez were the two guys I wanted this offseason (one of them). Cruz was a cherry on top because of the pick being a #2. It was crazy how this all came together. Very logical, but not necessarily the original plan IMO.

I guess I don't see the logic in punting picks for marginal increases in "now" value if the plan is just to "keep the O's in conversation while continuing a long rebuild." This plan really only makes sense to me if the FO thinks this is a team that will be competing for the AL East title -- not a team that, if things go right, could be in the conversation late in the season.

[LookinUp]

I guess I don't see the logic in punting picks for marginal increases in "now" value if the plan is just to "keep the O's in conversation while continuing a long rebuild." This plan really only makes sense to me if the FO thinks this is a team that will be competing for the AL East title -- not a team that, if things go right, could be in the conversation late in the season.

The case for Burnett was simple. Short contract. Relatively inexpensive. No picks. When that didn't work, the other pro's for Jimenez get accentuated. He's a nice bridge to when Bundy and Gausman run this staff, and he certainly profiles as a guy who could put a team on his back in the next couple of years.

Cruz has the potential to be a very cheap contract and still let the O's recoup the pick. The now value gained a lot of steam after we gave up the first. Nothing's guaranteed, of course, but the bet was hedged.

Quick question...what # of wins would you project for this team? Personally, I like the starters but I also like depth better than I have in a long time.

[33rdst]

No, I think the caliber of players, taking into account cost/risk/upside is essentially the same. I'm trying to figure out why it seems like the board is overjoyed at the moves/plan. I mean, it's absolutely better than doing nothing. But to me this looks like "going for it" in name, and not action.

I'm not sure what else he could have done given the obvious financial constraints and the limitations of this market. The consensus was that Tanaka was the best starter on the market. Clearly the O's were never going to be in on him. They don't play in that universe. Of the remaining options he did quite well don't you think? As far as hitters they were able significantly improve their outfield defense and add a power bat. The pen is improved. We'll see how the back end works out. Are you disappointed in giving up the picks?

[Stotle]

Fair enough. I'm not entirely sure what else they could have done, though. I guess sign Choo? What could they have done that would make our overjoyous attitudes justified?

Also, this is an Orioles fan board, so... when upgrades to the team are made, we get excited. I understand you're coming from a more objective place, but to me, it's pretty easy to understand why people are excited.

I understand excitement, for sure. I don't understand the need to build a narrative that the off-season, as unfolded, was a master stroke and example of terrific game planning and execution.

To me, giving McCann 5/90 at the beginning of the off-season, then finding a cheap SP is a better use of money/roster spots than Cruz/Jimenez. McCann is the better player and fits the needs of the org (near term and long term) better than Cruz/Jimenez. If you can trade Wieters, you do it. Or you have these guys chop up the rotation and go 3 on 2 off to keep both fresh and in the lineup for 150+ games.

[Stotle]

The case for Burnett was simple. Short contract. Relatively inexpensive. No picks. When that didn't work, the other pro's for Jimenez get accentuated. He's a nice bridge to when Bundy and Gausman run this staff, and he certainly profiles as a guy who could put a team on his back in the next couple of years.

Cruz has the potential to be a very cheap contract and still let the O's recoup the pick. The now value gained a lot of steam after we gave up the first. Nothing's guaranteed, of course, but the bet was hedged.

Quick question...what # of wins would you project for this team? Personally, I like the starters but I also like depth better than I have in a long time.

I would assume the team, if healthy, is in the 80s somewhere. Maybe finishes five games out of the last wild card spot?

[Stotle]

I'm not sure what else he could have done given the obvious financial constraints and the limitations of this market. The consensus was that Tanaka was the best starter on the market. Clearly the O's were never going to be in on him. They don't play in that universe. Of the remaining options he did quite well don't you think? As far as hitters they were able significantly improve their outfield defense and add a power bat. The pen is improved. We'll see how the back end works out. Are you disappointed in giving up the picks?

I think giving up the picks makes no sense unless it's part of a plan that makes a playoff appearance an expectation. If you believe this is a playoff team, giving up the picks aren't a big deal. But that should be the baseline. In order for this route to be commended, the team needs to make the playoffs.

[Tony-OH]

I guess I don't see the logic in punting picks for marginal increases in "now" value if the plan is just to "keep the O's in conversation while continuing a long rebuild." This plan really only makes sense to me if the FO thinks this is a team that will be competing for the AL East title -- not a team that, if things go right, could be in the conversation late in the season.

I clearly think the Orioles view themselves as doing just that with this team. Whether they do remains to be seen, but I think the addition of Jimenez and Cruz clearly signals that Duquette has the going for it mentality. You don't sign two players for $20 million next year if you think it only makes you marginally better. You can argue whether they are correct or not, but I highly doubt Duquette thinks these moves make them just marginally better.

[Tony-OH]

I think giving up the picks makes no sense unless it's part of a plan that makes a playoff appearance an expectation. If you believe this is a playoff team, giving up the picks aren't a big deal. But that should be the baseline. In order for this route to be commended, the team needs to make the playoffs.

I don't agree. The draft is such a crap shoot that giving up a late 1st round or second round pick doesn't have to mean the team will definitely be a playoff team now. If the Orioles start doing this every offseason than I'll have concerns, but the core of this team is ready to win and adding a good solid starter and a power hitter into the lineup made the team a playoff contender in my mind. That's worth the picks in this year's draft, especially when you take into consideration the players Duquette has been adding on the international market.

[Stotle]

I clearly think the Orioles view themselves as doing just that with this team. Whether they do remains to be seen, but I think the addition of Jimenez and Cruz clearly signals that Duquette has the going for it mentality. You don't sign two players for $20 million next year if you think it only makes you marginally better. You can argue whether they are correct or not, but I highly doubt Duquette thinks these moves make them just marginally better.

Which is fine, and an evaluative question that will mostly be answered through the season. But it's certainly fortunate for Baltimore, then, that the only two big additions needed to push them over the top are two players that happened to be available at the end of February.

[LookinUp]

I would assume the team, if healthy, is in the 80s somewhere. Maybe finishes five games out of the last wild card spot?

That's what we were last year. It's certainly possible that Davis, Jones and Manny (1/2 season) come back to earth, removing gains from this offseason. It's also possible that Kakes, Wieters and the bulllpen are superior to last year's version.

I put them at 90 wins, with a fairly large range of possibilities. With some fairly good luck, I think this is a playoff team.

[wildcard]

I don't think it was Dan's plan to be in ST without an experienced closer. He could have had Ed Mujica. He was cheap and would have passed the physical. He chose not to go that direction.

Dan has made many good moves this off season. I am anxious to see how the closer situation turns out.

[El Gordo]

Well I'm not sure the McCann scenario works if all you have is 100 marbles. For me the better plan would have been to go after Abreu and M.Gonzalez. They currently signed at a combined 11M for this year and I like them short term and long term better than Jimenez Cruz. and I keep my picks.

[Stotle]

I don't agree. The draft is such a crap shoot that giving up a late 1st round or second round pick doesn't have to mean the team will definitely be a playoff team now. If the Orioles start doing this every offseason than I'll have concerns, but the core of this team is ready to win and adding a good solid starter and a power hitter into the lineup made the team a playoff contender in my mind. That's worth the picks in this year's draft, especially when you take into consideration the players Duquette has been adding on the international market.

1. The international market issue is completely divorced from giving up draft picks. These are minimal financial investments, and Duquette/Baltimore should be aggressive on the international front regardless of whether or not they plan on giving a US amateur player 1.5 MM this summer. The fan base has to understand this -- no one in the game really thinks you need to choose one or the other, draft vs. J2.

2. As far as process is concerned, giving up the picks matters. If Baltimore thinks they have no idea what they might get in the first or second round of a draft, they should revisit their player acquisition strategies. Are the Cardinals simply the luckiest team in history with their 1st/2nd round "hits" over the past six years or so?