CSN: The five worst contracts in Orioles history

[LookinUp]

This thread illustrates well the why reporters should research articles on fan message boards.

[gpolee]

I did not know that he was such a cry-baby!

The Orioles broke his heart. Baylor wanted to stay in Baltimore and keep playing with his best friend, Bobby Grich, with whom he had risen the minor-league ranks. The year following the Baylor trade, Grich filed for free agency, signed with the Angels and was joined by Baylor that same 1977 season. Those two near HOFers woul dhave been career Orioles. Instead, the Reggie trade cost the Orioles two rising stars who embodied the "Oriole Way" philosophy and set back the team.

[russ snyder]

The Orioles broke his heart. Baylor wanted to stay in Baltimore and keep playing with his best friend, Bobby Grich, with whom he had risen the minor-league ranks. The year following the Baylor trade, Grich filed for free agency, signed with the Angels and was joined by Baylor that same 1977 season. Those two near HOFers woul dhave been career Orioles. Instead, the Reggie trade cost the Orioles two rising stars who embodied the "Oriole Way" philosophy and set back the team.

I was kidding about the cry-baby part.

While the trade may have not worked out the way that the Orioles wanted, Reggie Jackson had a very productive year i9 1976, and the Orioles packaged Ken Holtzman in the deal that netted the Orioles Scott McGregor and Rick Dempsey among others.

Further, I think that it's a big supposition that Grich and Baylor would have stayed Orioles for their entire careers. I doubt that the Orioles would have been able to afford both or that the lure of lucrative long term deals would not have lured either or both of them away from the Orioles.

[gpolee]

While Beane was inventing Moneyball Syd was calling teams to inquire about players they'd traded a year ago.

Eli Jacobs was the owner. He was the single worst owner in franchise history. He makes angelos look like a saint.

[gpolee]

I was kidding about the cry-baby part.

While the trade may have not worked out the way that the Orioles wanted, Reggie Jackson had a very productive year i9 1976, and the Orioles packaged Ken Holtzman in the deal that netted the Orioles Scott McGregor and Rick Dempsey among others.

Further, I think that it's a big supposition that Grich and Baylor would have stayed Orioles for their entire careers. I doubt that the Orioles would have been able to afford both or that the lure of lucrative long term deals would not have lured either or both of them away from the Orioles.

It was 1976, not 2014. Many players stayed as lifers on their teams because they wanted to stay in their organizations - things were more like family.

Torrez, coming off a 20-win 1975, would have netted more from the Yankees than Holtzman in that trade.

Reggie held himself out of the first 28 games of that season, so I have an issue with the claim that he had a "productive year." His refusal to play cast a pall over the entire season. He hit a few homers, but was was exposed as an incapable outfelder who was unrepentant about his carelessness defensively. Jackson's atrocious play in the field makes Nelson Cruz look like Larry Walker.

[Singleton]

IMO, can't blame Belle or the Os for a degenerative condition. Also, not sure of the relevance of Belle denouncing a reporter to whether the contract was bad or not - seems like Dubroff is twisting the very knife he is critical of Belle for using.

I think the bad contracts that were DOA upon signing were Erickson, Ponson, Gibbons, Segui and the second Mora contract.

Now, the Os could have dealt Erickson at the deadline before his last season and Thrift wanted prospects instead of just dumping Erickson (per Peter Gammons) who got hurt again in his last year.

I've always hated the second Mora contract. AM should have let Mora go or trade him. Mora produced 12 WAR for a little over $10M in the three years of his prior contract, but then Mora went directly to the owner and was paid $23.5M to produce 4 WAR.

Jay Payton was never going to justify his contract as soon as it was signed.

Yea, I really wouldn't list contracts that worked out poorly because of injury on the list of worst. I would focus on deals that made little sense even at the time. With that, I would probably only include Ponson and Baez on this list (perhaps Erickson) but not Roberts or Belle. I would put the Mora and Segui contracts on that list for sure.

I don't think Payton was significant enough and almost any one year deal isn't going to make my list (Atkins).

[OFFNY]

The Orioles broke his heart. Baylor wanted to stay in Baltimore and keep playing with his best friend, Bobby Grich, with whom he had risen the minor-league ranks. The year following the Baylor trade, Grich filed for free agency, signed with the Angels and was joined by Baylor that same 1977 season. Those two near HOFers woul dhave been career Orioles. Instead, the Reggie trade cost the Orioles two rising stars who embodied the "Oriole Way" philosophy and set back the team.

Set back ???

The Orioles went 97-64 with one rainout in 1977 when Baylor and Grich signed with the Angels, while the Californians floundered at 74-88.

The Orioles had an "off year" in 1978, going 90-71 with 1 rainout.

They went 102-57 with 5 rainouts and the American League pennant (going through the Angels in that years A.L.C.S.) in 1979.

They won 100 games in 1980.

They had the 2nd best record overall in the A.L. East (59-46) in the strike-shortened season of 1981.

They won 94 games in 1982.

They won 98 games and the World Series in in 1983.

These are all the facts, as they happened. You can believe whatever you want to believe. The Jackson-for-Baylor trade had little effect on the direction and the success of the franchise, other than Jackson having an anomaly season in that he played for the Baltimore Orioles, and set an American League record (since broken by Don Mattingly) for the most consecutive games hitting a home run (6), which is still a franchise record to this day, now shared by Chris Davis (who accomplished the feat in 2012.)

Jackson played well for the Orioles in 1976 (27 HR's 91 RBI's, and a career high 28 stolen bases), Baylor played fairly well for the Athletics that same year (he hit only 15 HR's and 25 2B's, but also set a career-high with 52 stolen bases), and both chose to sign with new clubs via free agency in 1977. There isn't much more relevance to it than that, other than the fact that, as Russ Snyder pointed out, the fact that Ken Holtzman (who was also acquired by the Orioles in the Jackson-for-Baylor trade) netted the Orioles Scott McGregor, Tippy Martinez, and Rudy May (whom, after winning 18 games for the Orioles in 1977 was later traded for Don Stanhouse and Gary Roenicke.)

It was 1976, not 2014. Many players stayed as lifers on their teams because they wanted to stay in their organizations - things were more like family.

Torrez, coming off a 20-win 1975, would have netted more from the Yankees than Holtzman in that trade.

Reggie held himself out of the first 28 games of that season, so I have an issue with the claim that he had a "productive year." His refusal to play cast a pall over the entire season. He hit a few homers, but was was exposed as an incapable outfelder who was unrepentant about his carelessness defensively. Jackson's atrocious play in the field makes Nelson Cruz look like Larry Walker.

The offseason between 1976 and 1977 was one of the biggest offseason for free agents ever. Catfish Hunter signed as a free agent with the Yankees in between the 1974 and 1975 seasons, Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally were both declared free agents between the 1975 and 1976 seasons, and the floodgates broke open completely between the 1976 and 1977 seasons ...... the same season that Grich and Baylor chose to sign with the Angels. As Russ Snyder pointed out, your supposition that both would have necessarily stayed with the Orioles is a very big one.

But again, the larger point is that the Orioles franchise flourished from 1977-1983, and a part of that was due to another player (Ken Holtzman) whom was acquired in the Jackson-for-Baylor trade. You obviously have an axe to grind about the Jackson-for-Baylor trade, and are trying to make it a much bigger (and negative) deal than it was.

[DrungoHazewood]

Eli Jacobs was the owner. He was the single worst owner in franchise history. He makes angelos look like a saint.

Jacobs was gone six years before Thrift was hired.

[russ snyder]

It was 1976, not 2014. Many players stayed as lifers on their teams because they wanted to stay in their organizations - things were more like family.

Torrez, coming off a 20-win 1975, would have netted more from the Yankees than Holtzman in that trade.

Reggie held himself out of the first 28 games of that season, so I have an issue with the claim that he had a "productive year." His refusal to play cast a pall over the entire season. He hit a few homers, but was was exposed as an incapable outfelder who was unrepentant about his carelessness defensively. Jackson's atrocious play in the field makes Nelson Cruz look like Larry Walker.

This is not true. I checked the baseball almanac and Reggie Jackson missed the first sixteen games of the 1976 season as a result of his holdout. He made his debut in the second game of a doubleheader in Oakland ( 5/2/76). ( The Orioles won the game to bring their record to 7-10) He missed sixteen games after he was traded on April 2nd. Further, you can deny that 27 HR's, 91 RBI's, 28 SB's, an OBP of .351, & slugging percentage of .502 (.853 OPS) is productive. But your personal feelings torward the man are clouding your judgement IMO.

Further, your premise that players in 1976 viewed their teams as "family" is at best revisionist history. This was the first year of free agency and there were many players including Bobby Grich, Don Baylor, Reggie Jackson who moved on because of the long term security and money that free agency brought to them.

[gpolee]

This is not true. I checked the baseball almanac and Reggie Jackson missed the first sixteen games of the 1976 season as a result of his holdout. He made his debut in the second game of a doubleheader in Oakland ( 5/2/76). ( The Orioles won the game to bring their record to 7-10) He missed sixteen games, and he was trded on April 2nd. Further, you can deny that 27 HR's, 91 RBI's, 28 SB's, an OBP of .351, & slugging percentage of .502 (.853 OPS) is productive. But your personal feelings torward the man are clouding your judgement IMO.

Further, your premise that players in 1976 viewed their teams as "family" is at best revisionist history. This was the first year of free agency and there were many players including Bobby Grich, Don Baylor, Reggie Jackson who moved on because of the long term security and money that free agency brought to them.

I have no personal feelings torwards Jackson. Nor Baylor and Grich, for that matter. The trade was philosophically in opposition with the team's reluctance to sign the biggest monied players and instead focus on the development of players in their organization. in that way, the bad Jackson trade looks very much like the philosophically errant Glenn Davis trade.

[gpolee]

Jacobs was gone six years before Thrift was hired.

Yep. Got my wires crossed with Roland Hemond. Must have been the Pirates connection.

[russ snyder]

I have no personal feelings torwards Jackson. Nor Baylor and Grich, for that matter. The trade was philosophically in opposition with the team's reluctance to sign the biggest monied players and instead focus on the development of players in their organization. in that way, the bad Jackson trade looks very much like the philosophically errant Glenn Davis trade.

My apologies, your blistering critique of Jackson's lack of defensive prowess and not admitting that he was productive offensively during the 1976 season led me to believe that you did not care that much for the man. We are going to have to agree to disagree. First, I do not think it was a bad trade. Jackson's production was greater than Baylor's in 1976. IMO, this trade does not compare in any way to the Glenn Davis deal.

[gpolee]

Set back ???

The Jackson-for-Baylor trade had little effect on the direction and the success of the franchise, other than Jackson having an anomaly season in that he played for the Baltimore Orioles, and set an American League record (since broken by Don Mattingly) for the most consecutive games hitting a home run (6), which is still a franchise record to this day, now shared by Chris Davis (who accomplished the feat in 2012.) But again, the larger point is that the Orioles franchise flourished from 1977-1983, and a part of that was due to another player (Ken Holtzman) whom was acquired in the Jackson-for-Baylor trade.

Ridiculous! Baylor (and Grich) were cornerstones of the Orioles' future. Look at the stats of Baylor's replacement, Pat Kelly, and tell me that losing baylor's tremendously greater production did not set back the Orioles. That "Jackson-led" 1976 team had the lowest winning percentage of any Orioles team from 1973 - 1984.

Also, Mike Torrez, 20-9 with a 3.06 in 1975, was included in the Baylor trade. Had Torrez been included in the subsequent trade with the yankees, he would have netted the team at at least as much as did Holtzman, if not more.

[TABLE=class: sortable stats_table]

<tbody>[TR=class: hl]

[TD=align: left][/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

[TABLE=class: sortable stats_table]

<tbody>[TR]

[TD=align: right][/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

[Tony-OH]

While Beane was inventing Moneyball Syd was calling teams to inquire about players they'd traded a year ago.

I'm convinced that Thrift was in early stages of Alzheimers's or some other type of senility while he was at the helm of the Orioles. Thrift was a very creative and innovative baseball man back in his day. It's ashamed that his Orioles run will be what he's remembered for around these parts.

[gpolee]

My apologies, your blistering critique of Jackson's lack of defensive prowess and not admitting that he was productive offensively during the 1976 season led me to believe that you did not care that much for the man. We are going to have to agree to disagree. First, I do not think it was a bad trade. Jackson's production was greater than Baylor's in 1976. IMO, this trade does not compare in any way to the Glenn Davis deal.

In both cases, the Orioles strayed from their philosophy of internally developing players. In both trades, they acquired a head-case as the feature player. In both trades, the Orioles dealt two borderline-HOF players. The two trades netted them 27 and 24 HRs, respectively. In both cases, the Orioles would have maintained a higher quality team and saved money rather than shelling out mega-bucks for the two sluggers.