Minor Leaguers as the Working Poor

[osfan83]

The marketing principal is the same. The reason for the decline in popularity of baseball in the US will be proven to be the unrestricted practice of allowing foreign born players into the league. When baseball was an all American sport, with mostly American players it was far and away the most popular sport in the US. Fast forward to now. Football, a sport that has 99% American players devastates baseball in popularity. It isn't even close. If anyone thinks, that an ever increasing population of foreign born players will not have an affect on MLB, they are mistaken. If MLB teams care about the future of baseball, stop building baseball schools in the DR and build them in Harlem or Compton or Detroit. It is where the great athletes are anyway. Back on topic of the thread. It is economics for owners. If they can get two rookie ball teams of kids from the DR for next to nothing, why not take a shot. In general there are not better players in the DR. They are just willing to play for nothing, because to them, it isn't nothing. That is all fine, but I think it is short sighted in the long term success of MLB.

I'm not sure this is entirely true.

I believe football trumps baseball because of TV more than where players are born. Baseball is not a great TV sport, slow moving methodical. Football is almost the perfect pace for TV, natural breaks between a rhythm of action.

Weather in Latin countries has much to do with baseball level of play. In Detroit and Harlem poor kids get to play baseball maybe 6 months oft he year....Baseball is year round in the DR.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm not sure this is entirely true.

I believe football trumps baseball because of TV more than where players are born. Baseball is not a great TV sport, slow moving methodical. Football is almost the perfect pace for TV, natural breaks between a rhythm of action.

Weather in Latin countries has much to do with baseball level of play. In Detroit and Harlem poor kids get to play baseball maybe 6 months oft he year....Baseball is year round in the DR.

Well, that's part of his point (that I actually agree with). For example, we've had a pretty big loss of African american players over they years (for a variety of reasons). That talent is there if MLB wanted to expend more resources to reach out and develop it. It's just not an economic efficiency.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

It has a number of disadvantages. Teams that have worked hard to get an overseas advantage would see that disappear. The influx of talent would be curtailed with restrictions on where and for how much they can play. Veterans would rightfully recoil at being treated like high school kids.

I see no problem with any of this.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

Maybe, but the owners don't care about the decrease in US popularity as long as international popularity more than compensates. Similar model with the Prem in the UK; at one time a very high percentage of player were home grown but the popularity did not extend much beyond the UK; upon the opening of boarder among EU countries allowed a free movement of labor throughout Europe, the percentage of Prem players (or a least Stars) is probably at least half. The Prem might not be as popular in the UK as it once was, but it is now a global mega-marketing force to such a degree that it puts the NFL and MLB to shame. By the way, the Prem owners are making large amounts of money...if not in yearly income then most definitely in franchise valuation.

Maybe you are correct. But I think this would be the wrong strategy.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

I'm not sure this is entirely true.

I believe football trumps baseball because of TV more than where players are born. Baseball is not a great TV sport, slow moving methodical. Football is almost the perfect pace for TV, natural breaks between a rhythm of action.

Weather in Latin countries has much to do with baseball level of play. In Detroit and Harlem poor kids get to play baseball maybe 6 months oft he year....Baseball is year round in the DR.

Poor kids in Detroit and Harlem are not playing baseball at all. There are no state of the art training facilities being built there, like there are in the DR. It is no different then GE moving a plant to Korea. They build there because the labor was cheaper. DR players are cheaper to get.

[DrungoHazewood]

The marketing principal is the same. The reason for the decline in popularity of baseball in the US will be proven to be the unrestricted practice of allowing foreign born players into the league. When baseball was an all American sport, with mostly American players it was far and away the most popular sport in the US. Fast forward to now. Football, a sport that has 99% American players devastates baseball in popularity. It isn't even close. If anyone thinks, that an ever increasing population of foreign born players will not have an affect on MLB, they are mistaken. If MLB teams care about the future of baseball, stop building baseball schools in the DR and build them in Harlem or Compton or Detroit. It is where the great athletes are anyway. Back on topic of the thread. It is economics for owners. If they can get two rookie ball teams of kids from the DR for next to nothing, why not take a shot. In general there are not better players in the DR. They are just willing to play for nothing, because to them, it isn't nothing. That is all fine, but I think it is short sighted in the long term success of MLB.

This is total and complete nonsense. Most Americans are not nearly as xenophobic as you think. Baseball fans from wherever generally want one thing above all others: Their team to win. And beyond that, they want the league they watch to be of high quality.

And while players from other countries may not be better than American players, on average, the more foreign players you have access to the better the end product. The bigger the talent pool, the better the 700-odd major leaguers will end up being.

Baseball probably also sees the example of the EPL in the UK and wants to emulate its successes. As was previously mentioned in the thread, when the English League was primarily English players the league was just one of many good soccer leagues in the world. When the Bosman ruling opened up soccer to a form of free agency less restrictive than baseball has, and when ownership rules were also loosened, the EPL quickly sucked up a huge number of international players. The quality of the league skyrocketed, its popularity shot up, and revenues went crazy. Now there are a good number of English teams featuring stars from all over the world that are both far richer and far better than the old teams that were dominated by players from the UK.

MLB could take your plans and become a backward-looking league that encourages many of the best in the world to go elsewhere. It would certainly lower payrolls and make the folks who are distrustful of those who aren't exactly like themselves happy. But it would mean MLB's status would decline, it's revenues would go backwards, and other leagues around the world would chip away at the near-monopoly on top talent MLB now enjoys. I'd rather MLB be an inclusive, expansive, growing league than a cowering, frightened league full of quotas and restrictions.

[DrungoHazewood]

Poor kids in Detroit and Harlem are not playing baseball at all. There are no state of the art training facilities being built there, like there are in the DR. It is no different then GE moving a plant to Korea. They build there because the labor was cheaper. DR players are cheaper to get.

Are kids in Detroit (is anyone still living in Detroit?) and Harlem without training facilities because MLB wants cheaper kids, or because those kids didn't want to play the sport seen as that of old white guys? You're the one who can't connect to those unlike himself, so you may have a uniquely relevant perspective here.

[DrungoHazewood]

I see no problem with any of this.

Understood. You don't care at all about higher quality of play or larger talent pools. You just care about making salaries lower and ensuring that Americans are the overwhelming majority of major leaguers.

I don't think you and the powers-that-be really see eye-to-eye this.

[Flosman]

I am trying to look at this philosophically, with an obvious bias.

In one corner, you have the folks that believe all minor league teams, and especially the owners, make a ton of money and our greedy SOB's. They also believe that they should make "minimum wage," just ignoring the fact that there is no basis in fact since these are salaried positions. I don't know personally but would assume that there is some other benefits with medical, etc.

In the corner, you have folks that believe that these players have made a definitive (and free) choice to sign a contract for a low(er) wage. They also, most likely, don't believe that being successful is a bad thing if common sense is used, i.e., being a decent steward of the employees and community.

For young players that are from this country, I have no sympathy for their choice - they have an option to go to college or learn a trade and make a decent wage. Shame on them if they complain.

Regarding the greedy owners, I can only speak about my hometown team, Rochester Red Wings, who have been a community owned team for decades. In 2013, they had an operating income of $6.1M with an operating loss of -$200k.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45eegkg/19-rochester-red-wings/

I can provide many more examples, mainly outside of baseball, but I would say 95% of business owners are not greedy and have sacrificed their time and money in an attempt to provide a goods or service that employs others. Can they afford paying everyone well over "minimum wage"? It all depends on whether they are even making money. I have seen many good businesses and owners close the doors from both problems for various reasons - then they may lose all of their equity, including house, autos, etc. Years ago, I was there myself, though not as severe. In turn, I have helped small companies stay solvent pro-bono. Why? it is my civic duty and stewardship to do so, i.e. it saves jobs! It doesn't make me better or worse.

Is there greed? of course there is.... our own top business schools have put "Ethics" way down the list of importance. It drives me crazy when all business owners get lumped in with the very small percentage of greedy individuals (many are not owners but hired executives).

To be clear I was talking about the ML owners when calling them greedy and shortsighted. The ML owners are who own the players and ultimately are the ones that reap the huge reward for their development.

I think it is funny that in this tread there have been arguments that the antitrust exemption is not a big deal and later on talk about how there should be an international draft. Something that really can't work without the exemption.

As to those that keep chiming in that the players agree to the low pay and it is no different than any other person entering the work force. I know when I got done with college I was not subject to being drafted and the employers that recruited me had no ability to limit in any way where I earned my paycheck. Simply put the current system is abusive and should be corrected. Posters keep citing free market principles in reference to a market that is not free and probably does not work well as a free market system. MLB owners have a absolute sweetheart deal and situations like this one really make their true colors show.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Are kids in Detroit (is anyone still living in Detroit?) and Harlem without training facilities because MLB wants cheaper kids, or because those kids didn't want to play the sport seen as that of old white guys? You're the one who can't connect to those unlike himself, so you may have a uniquely relevant perspective here.

As much as I hate to say it, I think he does present a very valid point though. Particularly about the inner city/poor and African Americans. That infrastructure just isn't there for them anymore. Granted there are many reasons why. But I think it's fair to say that MLB could invest in that infrastructure and produce more talent/players from the inner city. It really does boil down to economic efficiencies.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

This is total and complete nonsense. Most Americans are not nearly as xenophobic as you think. Baseball fans from wherever generally want one thing above all others: Their team to win. And beyond that, they want the league they watch to be of high quality.

And while players from other countries may not be better than American players, on average, the more foreign players you have access to the better the end product. The bigger the talent pool, the better the 700-odd major leaguers will end up being.

Baseball probably also sees the example of the EPL in the UK and wants to emulate its successes. As was previously mentioned in the thread, when the English League was primarily English players the league was just one of many good soccer leagues in the world. When the Bosman ruling opened up soccer to a form of free agency less restrictive than baseball has, and when ownership rules were also loosened, the EPL quickly sucked up a huge number of international players. The quality of the league skyrocketed, its popularity shot up, and revenues went crazy. Now there are a good number of English teams featuring stars from all over the world that are both far richer and far better than the old teams that were dominated by players from the UK.

MLB could take your plans and become a backward-looking league that encourages many of the best in the world to go elsewhere. It would certainly lower payrolls and make the folks who are distrustful of those who aren't exactly like themselves happy. But it would mean MLB's status would decline, it's revenues would go backwards, and other leagues around the world would chip away at the near-monopoly on top talent MLB now enjoys. I'd rather MLB be an inclusive, expansive, growing league than a cowering, frightened league full of quotas and restrictions.

This is such liberal cocktail party crap. MLB has no competition within the baseball world, to imply otherwise is stupid. You can try and make the implication that this is a racial issue. It is not and you are less of a person then I thought you were to imply such. It is a business issue. A marketing issue. A marketing issue as it pertains MLB's core fan base. Which happens to be American at this time. Your Polly Anna view, lets all sing cum-by-ya, wearing our beret's is complete an utter hogwash. There is one reason for the influx in foreign born players in MLB. One. Cheap Labor. That is how it started. To deny it, would make me lose even more respect for you.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

Are kids in Detroit (is anyone still living in Detroit?) and Harlem without training facilities because MLB wants cheaper kids, or because those kids didn't want to play the sport seen as that of old white guys? You're the one who can't connect to those unlike himself, so you may have a uniquely relevant perspective here.

I don't know. Tell me about one of these facilities in one of those areas and I will go see if kids are showing up.

[Nigel Tufnel]

When you think about it, baseball has always been represented disproportionately by the low-paid working class: Irish and German immigrants in the beginning, then Italian immigrants, then African Americans, and now Latin American players. I think David Halberstam wrote about this in The Summer of '49. Anyway, it's funny to think that the game everyone considers to be the most American has always been played by people that much of society didn't consider to be 'true' Americans. Actually, the melting pot aspect probably IS why it's the most American game.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

Understood. You don't care at all about higher quality of play or larger talent pools. You just care about making salaries lower and ensuring that Americans are the overwhelming majority of major leaguers.

I don't think you and the powers-that-be really see eye-to-eye this.

Read much of this tread ? I want salaries higher. I don't want to be force fed players from any country, simply because it is more cost effective for the owners.

[DrungoHazewood]

Read much of this tread ? I want salaries higher. I don't want to be force fed players from any country, simply because it is more cost effective for the owners.

Who's force feeding you anything? Are you saying that foreign players are being promoted through the minor leagues despite being out-performed by Americans?