Great Markakis article by Brit

[Malike]

If he is working harder now then in years past then obviously he could have worked harder in years past. How is that nebulous? How is that speculative?

It's impossible to say he could have worked out harder in years past. Absolutely impossible.

[Moose Milligan]

The argument is that he could have done more...because he said he's done more this winter.

And, IMO, yours is a pretty lazy rejoinder.

Of course he's done more. I'd expect any athlete to do more before their age 30 season then they did at 26, 27. He HAS to do more....especially coming off injuries. What really matters is if Nick felt like he was doing enough in previous off-seasons...perceptions are reality and if he perceives any work that he did in a previous offseason as sufficient to prepare, that should be enough to satisfy anyone.

Did you see some of the old arguments Moose is talking about?

Whew boy some days it really felt like I was out there by myself on that limb.

I will give the other side credit, I never get neg rep for my pet theories.

At least you can admit what they were

[MrOrange82]

Did you see some of the old arguments Moose is talking about?

Whew boy some days it really felt like I was out there by myself on that limb.

I will give the other side credit, I never get neg rep for my pet theories.

Yeah, I actually went back and tried to find news and/or magazine stories that could've supported the idea that Nick spent his winters hunting rather than training, but no sale. I'm not going to call the guy a lazy, gun-toting bumpkin just because he likes to hunt. But he certainly has looked complacent to me over the years.

It'd be great if last year set a fire under him, but it's more than a little annoying that it almost took full span of his contract for that fire to spark. And, from the article, it really sounds like he dedicated himself to training this winter in a way that he hasn't in the past.

[Moose Milligan]

It's impossible to say he could have worked out harder in years past. Absolutely impossible.

Clearly, it's not impossible. CoC's been doing it for years

[Can_of_corn]

At least you can admit what they were

Dude, I never claimed it was fact, never claimed to have proof.

I do this fairly often and my track record isn't exactly bad.

[Moose Milligan]

Dude, I never claimed it was fact, never claimed to have proof.

I do this fairly often and my track record isn't exactly bad.

I never said you claimed to say it was fact. Hence, me giving you credit as to admitting what they are.

Stupid ballplayers. How dare they do anything fun in the offseason that isn't directly related to making themselves better? The nerve! I know if I were making millions I wouldn't be doing anything else. And whatever I say goes!

[MrOrange82]

Of course he's done more. I'd expect any athlete to do more before their age 30 season then they did at 26, 27. He HAS to do more....especially coming off injuries. What really matters is if Nick felt like he was doing enough in previous off-seasons...perceptions are reality and if he perceives any work that he did in a previous offseason as sufficient to prepare, that should be enough to satisfy anyone.

Jesus Montero thinks his winter preparation was adequate, too. He's an extreme example...but the point is: no, a player's opinion of his own preparedness is not sufficient, and it should never be sufficient.

He signed a big contract, lost 96 points from his OPS, raised it 4 points the next year, and then dropped another 49 points the next season. Unfortunately, we're dealing with a paucity of information, but, if you can find some stories from 2009 or 2010 lauding Nick's dedication to conditioning, then I'd have to drop the point.

Worst case scenario, Nick has another bad year and all this becomes academic. If he tears the cover off the ball, however, on the heels of his most rigorous winter of training ever...then you really have to question what he was doing previously.

[Moose Milligan]

Jesus Montero thinks his winter preparation was adequate, too. He's an extreme example...but the point is: no, a player's opinion of his own preparedness is not sufficient, and it should never be sufficient.

He signed a big contract, lost 96 points from his OPS, raised it 4 points the next year, and then dropped another 49 points the next season. Unfortunately, we're dealing with a paucity of information, but, if you can find some stories from 2009 or 2010 lauding Nick's dedication to conditioning, then I'd have to drop the point.

Worst case scenario, Nick has another bad year and all this becomes academic. If he tears the cover off the ball, however, on the heels of his most rigorous winter of training ever...then you really have to question what he was doing previously.

Well as long as you keep moving the goalposts....

So no player's opinion of their own preparedness should never be sufficient? If that sweeping statement is true, then I guess you could look at the members of the Seahawks defense and ask if their preparedness wasn't sufficient for the Superbowl.

Unless you've hung out with Nick every day in off-seasons past, there's no real way to know how he spends his time. So...round and round we go.

How about this: I'll find articles about Nick's dedication when you find articles deriding him about his lack of preparation and love for hunting. Deal?

[MrOrange82]

Also, I found the following snippets interesting. The first is from the story cited by the OP. The second is from the Baltimore Sun...December 11, 2012.

There were no breaks, even for the holidays. When Flaherty, who is dating Markakis' sister-in-law came to North Carolina for the family Thanksgiving, the pair were in the gym for "hours," said Christina Markakis. "And they didn't miss a day."

In Markakis' mind, he had already been robbed of too many.

"I felt like I was behind," Markakis said of the need to start training at the end of last season. "In my eyes, I was a year to a year-and-a-half behind, strength-wise, to most people and to where I wanted to be. I needed to get a head start."

Markakis, who typically loses 10 pounds during the season, also enlisted the team's chef, Jenny Spiliadis, to help him eat clean, and she dropped off food twice a week. It wasn't about hitting a specific number on the scale but adding "good weight" to put him back where he needed to be strength-wise.

...

Orioles right fielder Nick Markakis resumed normal offseason workouts a few weeks ago after recovering from surgery to repair a broken left thumb that cost him the last month of the regular season and the team’s first postseason in 15 years.

"As good as I'm going to get right now." Markakis said Tuesday. "I've already started all my stuff and I’m ready to roll. And actually, [i’m] anxious to get down there [to spring training]. I don't have any setbacks."

...

Markakis said that while he feels healthy and has resumed his normal offseason routine, he hasn’t done any baseball activities yet. He said he usually doesn’t do that anyway until spring training.

"I’m enjoying my offseason right now,” Markakis said. “[spring training] will be here before we know it."

What a difference a year makes? We all know Markakis was slowed by a neck injury in ST last year, but, when interviewed for Britt's story, he felt like he was a year to a year and a half behind in terms of strength? He seemed comfortable enough with his routine last winter, and (I know this statement's been made before) I don't see how a ST injury could have undone all the work he put in that winter.

Unless...

[Malike]

Also, I found the following snippets interesting. The first is from the story cited by the OP. The second is from the Baltimore Sun...December 11, 2012.

...

What a difference a year makes? We all know Markakis was slowed by a neck injury in ST last year, but, when interviewed for Britt's story, he felt like he was a year to a year and a half behind in terms of strength? He seemed comfortable enough with his routine last winter, and (I know this statement's been made before) I don't see how a ST injury could have undone all the work he put in that winter.

Unless...

I think you're reading too much into those quotes. I know guys who work out like machines. They don't get results, because of their diets and training methods, but you can bet your arse, they work out extremely hard. Just because the results aren't there, doesn't mean the effort wasn't put in, it was just done improperly.

[MrOrange82]

I think you're reading too much into those quotes. I know guys who work out like machines. They don't get results, because of their diets and training methods, but you can bet your arse, they work out extremely hard. Just because the results aren't there, doesn't mean the effort wasn't put in, it was just done improperly.

I know people like that, too. And I'm really not that worried about the difference between "not enough" and "not correctly." Either one would be bad, if proven. Of course, if it's the latter...what the ---- were the Orioles doing? Letting a $66 million player with a recent injury history just...do whatever he wants during the winter, regardless of whether he's doing "it" in the correct way?

[Moose Milligan]

Also, I found the following snippets interesting. The first is from the story cited by the OP. The second is from the Baltimore Sun...December 11, 2012.

...

What a difference a year makes? We all know Markakis was slowed by a neck injury in ST last year, but, when interviewed for Britt's story, he felt like he was a year to a year and a half behind in terms of strength? He seemed comfortable enough with his routine last winter, and (I know this statement's been made before) I don't see how a ST injury could have undone all the work he put in that winter.

Unless...

Are you going to define what baseball activities means? Cause, IMO, that means swinging a bat and throwing a ball. It doesn't necessarily mean he hadn't done any strength training or cardio.

[MrOrange82]

Are you going to define what baseball activities means? Cause, IMO, that means swinging a bat and throwing a ball. It doesn't necessarily mean he hadn't done any strength training or cardio.

The piece mentioned that he'd resumed "normal offseason workouts," but I'm not going to guess what that means when the article didn't define it. However, I didn't underline the second part to imply that a lack of "baseball activities" = "DUDE DIDN'T LIFT, BRAH." I imagine that baseball activities means hitting, fielding, etc., but that's my assumption.

Regardless, I put the two articles side-by-side because I think the comparison is interesting. Markakis claimed he was ready and raring to go in December 2012, but in 2014 he says he felt like he was "a year to a year-and-a-half behind" in the strength department. Markakis went through his "normal" routine prior to the 2013 season, but he apparently changed things up drastically this winter. Draw your own conclusions, or don't, but it just sounds to me like Markakis' old routine might have been lacking.

[SoBo]

Very encouraging. Between the injuries, his worst season to date and no contract beyond this year it's not shocking. Lord knows why his performance has faded over the years, getting married? Having kids? Natural athlete that never had to put a ton of work in before? Recent injuries? But he's only 30 and sometimes you need a wake up call.

I'm pumped that the boys are still pissed about the Sabathia hbp. Thought it was cheap then and still do. The guy was looking for a swinging strike when Markakis was writhing in pain headed for the dugout.

[Chavez Ravine]

I am dubious that super specialized and supervised off season conditioning translates into better baseball performance...or even fresher legs come September. I suspect that as long as you stay in general shape (i.e. not turn into me!) during the offseason then you are good. There is a long list of successful fatty pitchers that seem to support that view. I half heatedly tried to find studies on this topic, but didn't come up with much. Does anyone know of any?