Schoop Making the Team

[El Gordo]

It's impossible to know at this point, down to the exact day, but we can get pretty close by looking at past years. Here's a breakdown of the Super Two cutoff in terms of player service time:

2013: 2.122 (two years and 122 days)

2012: 2.139

2011: 2.146

2010: 2.122

2009: 2.139

Right now Schoop is at 0.027

Thanks, but that means nothing to me. I am just asking for a ball park number of days to keep his service time clock from starting. 20? 30? 60? My best guess from trying to translate the service time gobbledygook is 30 days should do it.

[joedogg9999]

This is just not true. I've posted this before, but the last time Schoop cracked a .715 OPS over more than 200 PA was the first half of 2011 in Single A Delmarva. Since then, he's put up the following:

A+ Frederick: .704 OPS over 329 PA

AA Bowie: .710 OPS over 555 PA

AAA Norfolk: .697 OPS over 289 PA

Add up the two AFL appearances, his 2013 cup of coffee, and the 2014 Grapefruit league and you're talking barely over 200 PA, accumulated sporadically in short stints against mixed competition.

Then what exactly was his ops for the 3 instances I mentioned? WBC, 2013 stint, and 2014 ST? I know his 2014 ST are fantastic, I remember him showcasing power at the WBC, and I remember him hitting his first career mlb homerun in his debut last year. Im sure if you put his numbers together of the 3 instances I mentioned you would have an ops of over .715. And IF not, then I think alexi cassilla, jemile weeks, and lombardozzi have all proven that they are NOT better options than Jonathan Schoop.

the only guy in the Os franchise that legitimately deserves the job moreso tham Schoop right now is ryan flaherty. Problem is, with manny out, we need flaherty at 3b. So that leaves us with cassilla, weeks, lombardozzi, andschoop at 2b. You cant tell me Schoop wont at the very least match their production (which isnt saying much). In fact. I find it almoat unbelieveable that, if given the chance, schoop wouldnt post better numbers than any one of those guys considering the bar is so low and Schoop has demonstrated that he will get his, in terms of homeruns, which is something you absolutely can not say about the other guys.

[Tony-OH]

Like some others here, I'd prefer Schoop to start in AAA. He needs to get acclimated to seeing a better level of pitching. If he's down there for a month and raking...bring him up.

This is how I see it but hey, from what I just heard, Buck wants him to be his everyday second baseman though he'll probably play 3B against lefties while Machado is out with Lombardozzi at second. Seems like they could have kept Gonzalez and had him platoon with Flaherty and had a better back up shortstop option and a potential better bat than Lombardozzi.

I talked to several scouts and baseball men who really don't get the Gonzalez for Lombardozzi move. Schoop could have been the every day second baseman, Flaherty platoons with Gonzalez, and keep Weeks as the utility guy because of his speed. Both Gonzalez and Flaherty can back up short and second. Lombardozzi can't play shortstop and has limite time at 3B in his career.

Add in the fact that Detroit wanted Gonzalez to be there everyday shortstop and makes you wonder why DD didn't hold out for more than a 25-year old utility guy/25th man on the roster?

As for Schoop, as long as he plays everyday I'm fine with him being on the team and see where he's at offensively when Machado returns.

[RVAbird]

Then what exactly was his ops for the 3 instances I mentioned? WBC, 2013 stint, and 2014 ST? I know his 2014 ST are fantastic, I remember him showcasing power at the WBC, and I remember him hitting his first career mlb homerun in his debut last year. Im sure if you put his numbers together of the 3 instances I mentioned you would have an ops of over .715. And IF not, then I think alexi cassilla, jemile weeks, and lombardozzi have all proven that they are NOT better options than Jonathan Schoop.

the only guy in the Os franchise that legitimately deserves the job moreso tham Schoop right now is ryan flaherty. Problem is, with manny out, we need flaherty at 3b. So that leaves us with cassilla, weeks, lombardozzi, andschoop at 2b. You cant tell me Schoop wont at the very least match their production (which isnt saying much). In fact. I find it almoat unbelieveable that, if given the chance, schoop wouldnt post better numbers than any one of those guys considering the bar is so low and Schoop has demonstrated that he will get his, in terms of homeruns, which is something you absolutely can not say about the other guys.

Combine those three and you're looking at 89 PA. If you are putting more stock in those plate appearances than the last three years of Schoop's minor league production then there's not much more of a conversation to be had.

[SoBo]

I'm excited for Schoop. By all accounts he plays a plus 2B defense and can turn a great double play. If he can field his position and provide some pop his first season I'm all for it. His build kind of reminds me of Jeff Kent. Love it!

[Frobby]

Thanks, but that means nothing to me. I am just asking for a ball park number of days to keep his service time clock from starting. 20? 30? 60? My best guess from trying to translate the service time gobbledygook is 30 days should do it.

Depends on for which purpose, free agency or arbitration eligibility. There are about 185 days in a baseball season, but 172 days of service is considered a full year, so for FA purposes if Schoop accumulates 145 days this year in addition to his 27 days from last year, that will bring him to 172 and get him credit for a full year. In other words, he has to be in the minors for 40+ days this year to end 2014 with less than a year of total service time (185 -145 = 40).

For Super-Two purposes, if Schoop gets 95 days of service time this year, he'll be at 122 total days, which puts him about in the range where he'd be a Super Two after the 2016 season if he was in the majors for all of 2015-16. In other words, he'd need to spend half of this season in the minors for the the O's to avoid him being a Super Two. But the exact date could vary by a week or two.

[Rene88]

This is how I see it but hey, from what I just heard, Buck wants him to be his everyday second baseman though he'll probably play 3B against lefties while Machado is out with Lombardozzi at second. Seems like they could have kept Gonzalez and had him platoon with Flaherty and had a better back up shortstop option and a potential better bat than Lombardozzi.

I talked to several scouts and baseball men who really don't get the Gonzalez for Lombardozzi move. Schoop could have been the every day second baseman, Flaherty platoons with Gonzalez, and keep Weeks as the utility guy because of his speed. Both Gonzalez and Flaherty can back up short and second. Lombardozzi can't play shortstop and has limite time at 3B in his career.

Add in the fact that Detroit wanted Gonzalez to be there everyday shortstop and makes you wonder why DD didn't hold out for more than a 25-year old utility guy/25th man on the roster?

As for Schoop, as long as he plays everyday I'm fine with him being on the team and see where he's at offensively when Machado returns.

My thoughts too, but if you read that thread many posters were super excited by the trade. I get the age thing-AGon is older and injury prone but really Lombardozzi is nothing thing special. He is a gamer though....but not worthy of high-fiving one another, so to speak.

[El Gordo]

He's going to make the team. Good. We need him. The hell with the clock.

I prefer to have my clock and beat it too.

[El Gordo]

Depends on for which purpose, free agency or arbitration eligibility. There are about 185 days in a baseball season, but 172 days of service is considered a full year, so for FA purposes if Schoop accumulates 145 days this year in addition to his 27 days from last year, that will bring him to 172 and get him credit for a full year. In other words, he has to be in the minors for 40+ days this year to end 2014 with less than a year of total service time (185 -145 = 40).

For Super-Two purposes, if Schoop gets 95 days of service time this year, he'll be at 122 total days, which puts him about in the range where he'd be a Super Two after the 2016 season if he was in the majors for all of 2015-16. In other words, he'd need to spend half of this season in the minors for the the O's to avoid him being a Super Two. But the exact date could vary by a week or two.

Thanks. Seems like we are between a rock and a hard place here. If we keep him down for 40 days we can have him for 7 years of control, but if he plays more than 95, then unless we send him down again next season we could only have him for 5?

[El Gordo]

My thoughts too, but if you read that thread many posters were super excited by the trade. I get the age thing-AGon is older and injury prone but really Lombardozzi is nothing thing special. He is a gamer though....but not worthy of high-fiving one another, so to speak.

A lot of those people didn't think that much of Gonzalez. My guess is they likes Schoop's bat better than Gonzo's and had pretty much decided to keep him up before the trade.

[Sanfran327]

Depends on for which purpose, free agency or arbitration eligibility. There are about 185 days in a baseball season, but 172 days of service is considered a full year, so for FA purposes if Schoop accumulates 145 days this year in addition to his 27 days from last year, that will bring him to 172 and get him credit for a full year. In other words, he has to be in the minors for 40+ days this year to end 2014 with less than a year of total service time (185 -145 = 40).

For Super-Two purposes, if Schoop gets 95 days of service time this year, he'll be at 122 total days, which puts him about in the range where he'd be a Super Two after the 2016 season if he was in the majors for all of 2015-16. In other words, he'd need to spend half of this season in the minors for the the O's to avoid him being a Super Two. But the exact date could vary by a week or two.

Do you think it's prudent to do this with every young player, or just those you project to be potential stars? Do you think we'll have signability issues with Schoop when he becomes a FA? I think this is part of the collateral damage that comes with "going all in" for a year or two. Or you might just see Schoop go back to AAA when Manny comes back and stays there through the ASG.

[El Gordo]

Do you think it's prudent to do this with every young player, or just those you project to be potential stars? Do you think we'll have signability issues with Schoop when he becomes a FA? I think this is part of the collateral damage that comes with "going all in" for a year or two. Or you might just see Schoop go back to AAA when Manny comes back and stays there through the ASG.

Depending on how long Manny is out the ASG might still be early to bring him back. To avoid super two, it seems he basically can only play about two and a half months this year. If he plays more than two weeks now, then it's more like some time in August.

[Can_of_corn]

Depending on how long Manny is out the ASG might still be early to bring him back. To avoid super two, it seems he basically can only play about two and a half months this year. If he plays more than two weeks now, then it's more like some time in August.

Can someone please show me an instance when a player of Schoop's relative prospect ranking was held back to avoid Super 2 status.

You do it for top 10 guys, you don't do it for #82.

[weams]

Can someone please show me an instance when a player of Schoop's relative prospect ranking was held back to avoid Super 2 status.

You do it for top 10 guys, you don't do it for #82.

This I completely agree with.

[Oldorioles]

Thanks, but that means nothing to me. I am just asking for a ball park number of days to keep his service time clock from starting. 20? 30? 60? My best guess from trying to translate the service time gobbledygook is 30 days should do it.

Yes, I would guess he needs to spend at least 30-40 days in the minors to ensure another year of control, as frobby illustrated.