Question about approach and process.

[Three Run Homer]

The Orioles hit just like Jim Presley hit when he was a major leaguer. Lots of power, lots of strikeouts, not many walks. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

[BarclaySouthway]

Guys generally don't change that much unless they're getting pitched around. It's pretty common for guys to get a little more disciplined at the plate as they mature, though.

Couple of comps for Adam Jones:

Torii Hunter

age 22-29: .321 OBA

age 30- present: .345 OBA

Reggie Smith (most similar to AJ at age 27--nice comp BTW!)

age 22-29: .360 OBA

age 30-37: .377 OBA

(different offensive environment might be a factor here)

It's not always the case though:

Andre Dawson (second best comp at 27--AJ's in awesome company on that list!)

age 22-29 .329 OBA

age 30-38 .323 OBA

He was the exact same player. Which wasn't bad.

Adam Jones

age 22-present: .324 OBA

It's reasonable to hope that Adam can push that up to .340 over the next couple years. It would be nice anyway.

[El Gordo]

Yeah, I'll disagree. OBP isn't a skill you scout for when looking for talent. Davis is a good example of a guy who had questionable plate discipline and made an adjustment.

In the sense that it isn't speed or power or one of the scouted tools it's easier in that respect. I agree that most guys are who they are by Davis' or Jones' age though, but it's through lack of effort or thought. It's not a physical skill they're lacking in the box.

Davis MiL numbers gave no indication he's have poor plate discipline. Just the opposite. Six seasons total: .318 .375 .597 .971 1078.

[Il BuonO]

Davis MiL numbers gave no indication he's have poor plate discipline. Just the opposite. Six seasons total: .318 .375 .597 .971 1078.

Yes, Davis dominated MiL pitching. So, what? He couldn't even stay up long enough with Texas to earn a spot. His highest walk ratio was a tick over 6%.

In 2012 he finished at 6.6% after 562 PA, by far his most in the ML. Then in 2013 he had a full season and 673 PA and his walk rate jumped to 10.7%.

That is a significant increase which can't be explained away. And while the numbers you posted show what potential he had as a hitter in the minors that had never translated to the next level. Davis is a great example of what can happen to a guy who does become more disciplined.

[weams]

So guys like Adam Dunn, Jack Cust, and Mark Reynolds out work and out think guys like Jones and Hardy?

Of course not. And they are not even on the same planet of goodness.

[weams]

Guys generally don't change that much unless they're getting pitched around. It's pretty common for guys to get a little more disciplined at the plate as they mature, though.

Couple of comps for Adam Jones:

Torii Hunter

age 22-29: .321 OBA

age 30- present: .345 OBA

Reggie Smith (most similar to AJ at age 27--nice comp BTW!)

age 22-29: .360 OBA

age 30-37: .377 OBA

(different offensive environment might be a factor here)

It's not always the case though:

Andre Dawson (second best comp at 27--AJ's in awesome company on that list!)

age 22-29 .329 OBA

age 30-38 .323 OBA

He was the exact same player. Which wasn't bad.

Adam Jones

age 22-present: .324 OBA

It's reasonable to hope that Adam can push that up to .340 over the next couple years. It would be nice anyway.

As long as hit hits thirty plus homers, he will have fine OPS. And that is great.

[Can_of_corn]

Yes, Davis dominated MiL pitching. So, what? He couldn't even stay up long enough with Texas to earn a spot. His highest walk ratio was a tick over 6%.

In 2012 he finished at 6.6% after 562 PA, by far his most in the ML. Then in 2013 he had a full season and 673 PA and his walk rate jumped to 10.7%.

That is a significant increase which can't be explained away. And while the numbers you posted show what potential he had as a hitter in the minors that had never translated to the next level. Davis is a great example of what can happen to a guy who does become more disciplined.

Or he closed a hole in his swing within the strikezone, forcing pitchers out of the zone.

[weams]

That is a significant increase which can't be explained away. And while the numbers you posted show what potential he had as a hitter in the minors that had never translated to the next level. Davis is a great example of what can happen to a guy who does become more disciplined.

Or a guy who is just so strong, playing in a park suited for his skill-set, that he just turns it back a notch. And gets better because he is not swinging from his heels. The up right stance certainly plays into his ability cover a meaningful part of the plate that may have been that hole that Corn alluded to.

[Frobby]

The Orioles hit just like Jim Presley hit when he was a major leaguer. Lots of power, lots of strikeouts, not many walks. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

It is something of a myth that the Orioles strike out a lot. Last year they had the fifth fewest strikeouts in the AL. Their profile changed a lot when they got rid of Reynolds and Andino and Betemit missed the season. We'll see about this year; strikeouts will probably go up some with Cruz here, Flaherty playing more and Schoop getting at bats.

That said, I don't think Presley emphasizes patience much. He was asked a question about Jones' lack of plate discipline at Fanfest and more or less scoffed at the notion that Jones should be less aggressive at the plate.

[Roll Tide]

The Orioles hit just like Jim Presley hit when he was a major leaguer. Lots of power, lots of strikeouts, not many walks. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

I agree...the Orioles have too many all or nothing guys.

[weams]

I agree...the Orioles have too many all or nothing guys.

I'm interested. Explain this for me. You could convince me with a good argument.

[weams]

It is something of a myth that the Orioles strike out a lot. Last year they had the fifth fewest strikeouts in the AL. Their profile changed a lot when they got rid of Reynolds and Andino and Betemit missed the season. We'll see about this year; strikeouts will probably go up some with Cruz here, Flaherty playing more and Schoop getting at bats.

That said, I don't think Presley emphasizes patience much. He was asked a question about Jones' lack of plate discipline at Fanfest and more or less scoffed at the notion that Jones should be less aggressive at the plate.

I'd not mess with Jones too much if I were Jim Presley. I think both he and Buck think that you need to hit until you take.

[DrungoHazewood]

So it is safe to say that our core is very much overrated? And since we have so many guys who do the same thing, we shouldn't be too concerned with them breaking up? Or can a team wide approach hinder the progress of a manny machado, or a schoop?

Overrated? No. Just because OBP is important doesn't mean that you can't win by emphasizing other areas. You could, at least in theory, win 100 games with a team that's last in the league in OBP. As Can_of_corn says, OBP is expensive. It's something everyone is going all-in for. When you have half or a third of the resources of some other teams you probably need to punt on OBP (mostly) and do other things to get ahead.

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree...the Orioles have too many all or nothing guys.

What's too many? What's too many in the context of the core they had on hand several years ago and the resources they had to improve that? It's one thing to strive for a very high OBP in the abstract, another thing altogether to build such a team with limited resources, high demand for OBP, and a low-OBP core.

[Babypowder]

It is something of a myth that the Orioles strike out a lot. Last year they had the fifth fewest strikeouts in the AL. Their profile changed a lot when they got rid of Reynolds and Andino and Betemit missed the season. We'll see about this year; strikeouts will probably go up some with Cruz here, Flaherty playing more and Schoop getting at bats.

That said, I don't think Presley emphasizes patience much. He was asked a question about Jones' lack of plate discipline at Fanfest and more or less scoffed at the notion that Jones should be less aggressive at the plate.

His answer rubbed me the wrong way too. They had first hand evidence of what can happen when a guy improves his discipline one way or another. Davis went from good to great, essentially just by laying off more pitches he couldn't handle. The idea that Adam Jones would somehow be worse by swinging at less terrible pitches is absurd. I understand it is unlikely, but the attitude they give off is that they don't seem to see it as a weakness in the first place.