Roch's Take

[Mike B]

Here is one mans vote that the trade ends up Jones, Sherrill, Tillman and Tui. I would be very happy with that return and consider that a reasonable return. But it is not a return that I would burn up almost the entire offseason to make. It is Hardly a Kemp, Kershaw, LaRoche, Hu and Broxton return. LOL.

We really won't know if it is Kemp, Kershaw. Laroche, Hu deal. It may be worse it may be better. We have to see who the fourth player is and then wait a few years to see which players are keepers. The Dodgers never offered those four anyway.

[amateurfan]

As BB was pointing out, Sherrill may not be the arm we're looking for now, but he does protect the young arms. Use Sherrill in the pen this year, see what happens, and let the copia of young pitchers flourish in Norfolk. Sherrill actually has some use to the O's next year. If this trade goes down, I dare say the 08 team is as good as the 07 team. Why not let Sherrill anchor the bullpen with Bradford and Walker and see what happens? It can't get worse. Regardless, Sherrill allows the young arms to develop properly, which still greatly affects building towards 09/10.

[clapdiddy]

It appears that they have different roles. Walker is somewhat of a LOOGY wheres I get the impression that Sherill will be our closer. Yeah, you trade Sherill if you can get something for him, but it's not like Walker and Sherill are redundant (though you might not be saying that).

That's kind of what I'm saying. I think Sherrill WAS a LOOGY this last year...he only pitched 46 innings I believe...

I'm afraid that if we turn him into a closer, he will be forced into situations he's not accustomed to, and will not be as successful. I think Walker has more of a track record as a LOOGY and will be valuable to a contender. It almost seems as if it is redundant.

I'm getting the impression that BB feels Sherrill will be our closer next year if he's acquired. I'm just not sure its a good idea.

[Migrant Redbird]

How did that Polanco thing work out? Pretty good for Detroit.

It actually worked out OK for the Phillies too, although they were planning to get the draft picks and flabbergasted when Polanco accepted arbitration. They went ahead and signed Polanco to a $4.6M contract to avoid arbitration, then dealt him for Ugueth Urbina and Ramon Martinez -- neither of whom did much for them -- but they only paid a little less than half of Polanco's 2005 salary.

The Phillies were committed to play Utley at 2nd and David Bell at 3rd. They'd have been a better team if they'd played Polanco at 3rd and DFA'd Bell.

[Stotle]

If AM thinks he can turn Sherrill into two good prospects (better than what would replace Sherrill coming back from the M's) than I can see a certain logic in using Sherrill to solidify our pen and then swinging him for prospects.

In fact, it'd be pretty canny. I know we're not used to our GMs thinking two steps at a time, but it's entirely possible this is the case.

I completely agree. I think he should have something in place first, but I agree if he can flip him it's great to include him. I don't think Sherrill should be seen as a player BAL should be looking to hold onto (if he comes here).

[Mike B]

Based on what it looks like SEA is willing to offer, the idea trade (for me) would be

Jones/Tillman/Sherill/Martinez

This is conditioned on Sherill or Walker being flipped for Lillibridge (the only reason I believe the rumor is BAL has little use for another LH in the 'pen, and he's mentioned a lot as a piece).

If you have Jones/Tillman/Lillibridge/Martinez, I honestly believe you are getting more quantity and more quality than Jones/Triunfel/Tillman. Martinez can be every bit the player Triunfel can. Slightly less "flashy" defense, but great hands. A larger frame that projects to more power and an already fluid swing that is producing linedrives to all fields at the low levels.

Now you'd have a CF for the ML team, a SS for the ML team hopefully by the end of the season, a power arm to add to a sick staff at Bowie and a projectable 3b in your low minors to slot in behind Costanzo on the depth chart (Rowell is 1b bound, and it's debatable Snyder can stick at 3b).

There is always use for a left hander especially if one of them closes. Zrbies from the Sun said SHerrill would be used as a closer. He has great control. He could be a left handed Wickman type.

[amateurfan]

I completely agree. I think he should have something in place first, but I agree if he can flip him it's great to include him. I don't think Sherrill should be seen as a player BAL should be looking to hold onto (if he comes here).

What I don't understand, is if AM is going to flip Sherrill, why wouldn't Atlanta be included in the deal in the first place. I just find it hard to believe that AM called up Wren and said, "If I get Sherrill, I'll give you him and Walker for Lillibridge. What do you say?" and Wren's reply is, "yeah, that's good, I'll wait for that to happen. Let me know how that goes." That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would Wren wait around? It's not like AM is breaking speed limits this winter.

[Roll Tide]

What I don't understand, is if AM is going to flip Sherrill, why wouldn't Atlanta be included in the deal in the first place. I just find it hard to believe that AM called up Wren and said, "If I get Sherrill, I'll give you him and Walker for Lillibridge. What do you say?" and Wren's reply is, "yeah, that's good, I'll wait for that to happen. Let me know how that goes." That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would Wren wait around? It's not like AM is breaking speed limits this winter.

I'm sure they'd only trade 1 or the other!

Trembley's quote from the pitching article at Orioles.com

and that he'd like to evaluate hard-throwing reliever Dennis Sarfate as a potential late-inning guy.

He doesn't say closer but if Walker & Bradford are the specialist 7 & or 8th innings then flipping Sherrill might actually hold water.

[Lucky Jim]

I completely agree. I think he should have something in place first, but I agree if he can flip him it's great to include him. I don't think Sherrill should be seen as a player BAL should be looking to hold onto (if he comes here).

I generally agree. That said, with Sherrill, if he's looking to get value out of him for the year and then trade him at the deadline, I'm okay with that, too. And the reason is that - unlike Bedard - I don't think Sherrill's value declines that much this year if we carry him on our roster for a while (unless he's absolutely horrible - which, with the year-to-year variation in relief pitchers, is tough).

I generally agree w/ you, though. I was against him at first. But I'm willing to acknowledge that AM may be onto something if this is his strategy.

[Stotle]

What I don't understand, is if AM is going to flip Sherrill, why wouldn't Atlanta be included in the deal in the first place. I just find it hard to believe that AM called up Wren and said, "If I get Sherrill, I'll give you him and Walker for Lillibridge. What do you say?" and Wren's reply is, "yeah, that's good, I'll wait for that to happen. Let me know how that goes." That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would Wren wait around? It's not like AM is breaking speed limits this winter.

Well, it would have to be trading Walker, I guess. AM wouldn't move him until he got Sherrill, and Wren isn't in any hurry if he's willing to move Lillibridge (who'll start at AAA). I don't necessarily think this is going to happen -- I've speculated ATL wouldn't want to move Lillibridge until they decide whether or not they prefer Escobar or BL long-term. I think it's plausable, however.

[Stotle]

I generally agree. That said, with Sherrill, if he's looking to get value out of him for the year and then trade him at the deadline, I'm okay with that, too. And the reason is that - unlike Bedard - I don't think Sherrill's value declines that much this year if we carry him on our roster for a while (unless he's absolutely horrible - which, with the year-to-year variation in relief pitchers, is tough).

I generally agree w/ you, though. I was against him at first. But I'm willing to acknowledge that AM may be onto something if this is his strategy.

Absolutely. Generally, I view RP as an overvalued commodity in the game right now. Outside of the handful of truly special arms out there, seldom do I think it's a good idea to trade for a guy after a terrific season, and I almost always think it's a good idea to try and move an arm after a truly outstanding season. I'm also for holding onto the "decent" arm in a contract year to get the picks (SD and MIL have done this effectively, I believe).

[Terps23]

The bullpen should not be a major concern of the Orioles right now. With the way the rotation is structured, the best bullpen in the league wouldn't do enough to make this team a 500 ball club.

The focus should be on long term position prospects (i.e. Jones, Triunfel, Clement, etc) and on starting pitching prospects (which we actually have a large amount of). The bullpen should be the last thing we truly focus on, when we have a team ready to compete and are only missing a couple of specific peices that can be filled through low level trades and free agency.

The bullpen is the easiest part of a club to improve and it's the one thing that shoudl be worried about come time to compete in the AL East

[RShack]

I completely agree. I think he should have something in place first, but I agree if he can flip him it's great to include him. I don't think Sherrill should be seen as a player BAL should be looking to hold onto (if he comes here).

It seems to me that you're over-thinking this. It's an important and necessary thing to have good guys in the BP. AM and DT have said all along that they're gonna fix the BP this winter. We've got lots of kid pitchers, what we don't have is enough BP guys who DT can count on to just show up as needed and get a few guys out without big calamities happening. I think fixing the BP is what the Sherrill story is about. I think it's really that simple. I don't see why you'd think this was part of some big plan to "flip" guys. I think that's much more of a discussion topic around here than anything that's real.

If AM gets him, I don't think he's doing it to "flip" him. I think he's doing it for one reason: so the guy will come strolling across the OF grass, take the ball that DT hands to him, and finish the dang inning. Why should it be about anything else?

[Lucky Jim]

The bullpen should not be a major concern of the Orioles right now. With the way the rotation is structured, the best bullpen in the league wouldn't do enough to make this team a 500 ball club.

The focus should be on long term position prospects (i.e. Jones, Triunfel, Clement, etc) and on starting pitching prospects (which we actually have a large amount of). The bullpen should be the last thing we truly focus on, when we have a team ready to compete and are only missing a couple of specific peices that can be filled through low level trades and free agency.

The bullpen is the easiest part of a club to improve and it's the one thing that shoudl be worried about come time to compete in the AL East

Well, if you can derive value out of Sherrill this year (use him to stabilize the bullpen - which I think that both Trembley and MacPhail think is important to the young pitching staff) and then flip him for prospects that help down the road at the deadline, you're getting the best of both worlds.

You're doing what you ask. And you're still contributing value to this team. Which prospects don't do. It's value-added.

[Stotle]

It seems to me that you're over-thinking this. It's an important and necessary thing to have good guys in the BP. AM and DT have said all along that they're gonna fix the BP this winter. We've got lots of kid pitchers, what we don't have is enough BP guys who DT can count on to just show up as needed and get a few guys out without big calamities happening. I think fixing the BP is what the Sherrill story is about. I think it's really that simple. I don't see why you'd think this was part of some big plan to "flip" guys. I think that's much more of a discussion topic around here than anything that's real.

If AM gets him, I don't think he's doing it to "flip" him. I think he's doing it for one reason: so the guy will come strolling across the OF grass, take the ball that DT hands to him, and finish the dang inning. Why should it be about anything else?

I think it's possible to "fix the pen" without using EB, that's all. You should be able to structure a deal around Mora for Gordon, for example. It's unlikely BAL will land young, potential impact players outside of an EB and Roberts deal. I don't need Sherill to be the one who's flipped -- that was silly of me to say -- but I would like to move someone of value out of the pen if we are bringing Sherill in with the EB deal.

Lucky Jim makes a good point that AM could move someone later. I guess I'm just not as convinced that Sherill is 1) a sure thing, or 2) more useful to BAL over than one of Butler/Chen/Marinez/DeJesus. That's all I was getting at.