Zach Britton is Too Filthy for the Pen

[Redskins Rick]

@ Rick ....Britton has a a good arsenal of pitches and therefore there is no reason to believe he wouldn't succeed in the rotation..

I have mixed feelings on this, I really like the guy, and he has nasty stuff. On the other hand, Tony-OH has made several posts on this subject, and he makes a very good case that even now, Britton as good as he is, throws too many pitches to be much more than a 5 inning pitcher.

[OFFNY]

With this team, I would rather stay with what we have now ...... Zach Britton as "The Bail-Out Guy" for when Oriole starters not named Chris Tillman have trouble going past 5 or 6 innings.

If Josh Stinson could materialize into "The Bail-Out Guy, Number Two," that would be ideal (in terms of eating more innings, and not burning up the rest of the bullpen.)

On numerous occasions, I have advocated for a "5 and-a-half man" rotation ...... pick a starting pitcher that has a tendency to be good for only 3 or 4 innings, and have a bullpen guy that is saved specifically for his starts, ready to come in as early as the 4th inning, and ready to pitch a good 4 or 5 innings himself.

Kind of like a buddy system with two specified pitchers on the staff.

@ OFFNY .... TJ McFarland can be that could if Britton is moved to the rotation. He did a serviceable job last year so there is no reason to believe he would struggle. Plus he's off to a really good start at AAA.

Britton's 2014 season is still a very small sample size, but his pitching to date (both in terms of results, AND in terms of everyone that has been watching him work) is considerably better than McFarland was for us in long relief last year.

To me, simply substituting T.J. MacFarland for Zach Britton and assuming that he will do just as good of a job as Britton has been doing is a very dangerous (and unwise) assumption.

If you want to make the argument that Britton should be moved to rotation, I suppose that you could make it (I wouldn't make that argument, but I supposes that one can be made), but asserting that McFarland will necessarily be as good (or even almost as good) as Britton is in his current role should not be part of that argument.

There are reasons why McFarland is currently in AAA, and it/they isn't because he is a young, potential stud starter that is honing his craft at the highest level of the minors (like Kevin Gausman is.)

[PA724_Oriole]

With this team, I would rather stay with what we have now ...... Zach Britton as "The Bail-Out Guy" for when Oriole starters not named Chris Tillman have trouble going past 5 or 6 innings.

If Josh Stinson could materialize into "The Bail-Out Guy, Number Two," that would be ideal (in terms of eating more innings, and not burning up the rest of the bullpen.)

On numerous occasions, I have advocated for a "5 and-a-half man" rotation ...... pick a starting pitcher that has a tendency to be good for only 3 or 4 innings, and have a bullpen guy that is saved specifically for his starts, ready to come in as early as the 4th inning, and ready to pitch a good 4 or 5 innings himself.

Kind of like a buddy system with two specified pitchers on the staff.

3 of our current starters average going like 4 innings now so why add another.

The Os need to find starters that can eat up innings. So far Tillman is the only one to show that this year and bringing someone from the pen wouldn't help that.

Would you rather have Britton throw 4 innings every fifth day, or would you rather have him throw 2 innings every second or third day?.

Right now it would be more valuable to the team to keep him where he's at. And to risky to do otherwise like others have mentioned.

[OFFNY]

With this team, I would rather stay with what we have now ...... Zach Britton as "The Bail-Out Guy" for when Oriole starters not named Chris Tillman have trouble going past 5 or 6 innings.

If Josh Stinson could materialize into "The Bail-Out Guy, Number Two," that would be ideal (in terms of eating more innings, and not burning up the rest of the bullpen.)

On numerous occasions, I have advocated for a "5 and-a-half man" rotation ...... pick a starting pitcher that has a tendency to be good for only 3 or 4 innings, and have a bullpen guy that is saved specifically for his starts, ready to come in as early as the 4th inning, and ready to pitch a good 4 or 5 innings himself.

Kind of like a buddy system with two specified pitchers on the staff.

Would you rather have Britton throw 4 innings every fifth day, or would you rather have him throw 2 innings every second or third day?.

I would rather have Britton in the bullpen, in the role that he is in now.

Britton just threw 3 innings in his last outing, so he is not necessarily relegated to a limit of 2 (innings).

My 5 and-a-half man rotation was an idea that I have brought up before, and I believe that it should be something to be considered for the future (although, I know that it probably won't be), but right now, I wouldn't go with it unless two other starters in addition to Tillman started showing that they could go deeper into games, and/or if an additional pitcher (such as Gausman) were brought up from AAA, which would allow us to have Britton (and Stinson, should he continue to pitch as well as he has this season with the exception of that one awful outing that he had) to stay in their current roles.

[blid]

Bud's career ERA is 4.35 in 752.1 innings. Zach's career ERA is 4.57 in 266.0 total innings. Exactly 11.1 of those innings, all recorded this season, have yielded an ERA lower than 4.61.

I'm not taking Norris out of the fifth spot on the strength of Zach's most recent 11.1 innings.

Heh, I thought your point was going to be that 4.35 and 4.57 are very close and near interchangeable, but instead you totally went the other way with it!

Britton's ERA may be a slight tick higher but he's 3 years younger and he's been brought up a few times when he was clearly not quite ready and was still working his way back into form post-injury. Plus, Britton's faced better opponents... and has a better ERA+.

I'm not actually trying to chuck Bud Norris out of the rotation, just saying I disagree with your reasoning here.

[OFFNY]

No one comments when I post John Parrish's run when he did his AMAZING 12-game stint for us.

With a sinker. From the left.

I have something to say about that, Weams.

Oo

[video=youtube;upnaRMRLImg]

[Frobby]

I have mixed feelings on this, I really like the guy, and he has nasty stuff. On the other hand, Tony-OH has made several posts on this subject, and he makes a very good case that even now, Britton as good as he is, throws too many pitches to be much more than a 5 inning pitcher.

I'm happy with Britton in his current role, but I don't think the "too many pitches" argument holds any water. He averages 16.0 innings an inning for his careeer, which gets him beyond six innings in 100 pitches. This year, he's averaging 14.2 pitches an inning, so if that carried over, he'd be at 99 pitches after 7 innings. Tillman averages 17.2 pitches per inning for his career, 16.9 last year. Should he not be a starter?

This is purely about whether Britton's improved performance this year would translate if he returned to being a starting pitcher, and whether there is a reason to find out right now. I say there isn't a good reason -- right now. (And I think this is Tony's view, also.)

[PA724_Oriole]

Britton for reliever of the year!

[CA-ORIOLE]

Lots of discussion about Britton on MLB radio today. He has definitely got some peoples attention.

[Flash- bd]

I'm happy with Britton in his current role, but I don't think the "too many pitches" argument holds any water. He averages 16.0 innings an inning for his careeer, which gets him beyond six innings in 100 pitches. This year, he's averaging 14.2 pitches an inning, so if that carried over, he'd be at 99 pitches after 7 innings. Tillman averages 17.2 pitches per inning for his career, 16.9 last year. Should he not be a starter?

This is purely about whether Britton's improved performance this year would translate if he returned to being a starting pitcher, and whether there is a reason to find out right now. I say there isn't a good reason -- right now. (And I think this is Tony's view, also.)

Yeah, totally agree with this. It's obviously not yet the time to start having that conversation about moving Britton to the starting rotation, for a number of reasons, but I do think it's a bit of a stretch to discredit his chances of being a good (or even very good) starter, not just the pitch count point you've rightly talked about it but also the idea that he doesn't have the other pitches. Just because he's not throwing them, hasn't had a need for them in the bullpen, and/or isn't having them called by Wieters doesn't mean he doesn't have them.

[sportsfan8703]

Some guys are more suited for relief work.

For a starter to be effective, they have to be able to get through the lineup multiple times during the game.

Relievers are spared that. So a very effect reliever, doesn't always translate into a very effective starter.

I really hope in the future that we give some of our struggling starters a chance in the pen for an extended stretch while they still have options. People talk about the Calvary failing and all. But we never gave Hernandez or Arrietta a chance in the pen. Let them see if they can even get Major leaguers out first in one inning stints before having to trade them because of no options. I know this was not the case with Hernandez.

[Roll Tide]

I really hope in the future that we give some of our struggling starters a chance in the pen for an extended stretch while they still have options. People talk about the Calvary failing and all. But we never gave Hernandez or Arrietta a chance in the pen. Let them see if they can even get Major leaguers out first in one inning stints before having to trade them because of no options. I know this was not the case with Hernandez.

I don't buy the bullpen recovery theory. Sounds like Zach did some medecine ball training and other stuff to rehab the shoulder. One would wonder if he could've done that stuff earlier ,,, the result appears to be increased velocity and better control. I don't think the success can be directly linked to the pen. Tillman came back after time in the minors and succeeded in the rotation . If now finally healthy no reason to believe Zach can't do the same ... Jake had control issues and probably still does! Hernandez didn't have the arsenal if my memory serves me correctly and was traded for another part. Quite a few here were calling for him to get a shot at closer.

[weams]

I don't buy the bullpen recovery theory. Sounds like Zach did some medecine ball training and other stuff to rehab the shoulder. One would wonder if he could've done that stuff earlier ,,, the result appears to be increased velocity and better control. I don't think the success can be directly linked to the pen. Tillman came back after time in the minors and succeeded in the rotation . If now finally healthy no reason to believe Zach can't do the same ... Jake had control issues and probably still does! Hernandez didn't have the arsenal if my memory serves me correctly and was traded for another part. Quite a few here were calling for him to get a shot at closer.

I really like David Hernandez but he's not pitching until next year. Jake has not pitched in the majors in 2014.

[weams]

I really hope in the future that we give some of our struggling starters a chance in the pen for an extended stretch while they still have options. People talk about the Calvary failing and all. But we never gave Hernandez or Arrietta a chance in the pen. Let them see if they can even get Major leaguers out first in one inning stints before having to trade them because of no options. I know this was not the case with Hernandez.

Other than setup men and closers, the rest of a bullpen should be a fluid rotation. Guys in and out over the seasons.