Buck's decisions tonight

[TonySoprano]

I know Matusz got it done but am I the only one who thinks he looks awful. 87-89 mph fastballs. He looked like he did as a starter. I saw an 87 mph fastball followed by an 84 mph changeup. Again, he got it done tonight but I don't like the way he looks. Probably the wrong thread for it, but Lombardozzi needs to make that play on Holt too.

I was unimpressed with Matusz.

I wonder if the cold affected him also because he looked average tonight.

[WV O's]

BM's velocity is worrisome. His change up had some drop to it, but he wasn't consistent with it.

[OFFNY]

BM's velocity is worrisome. His change up had some drop to it' date=' but he wasn't consistent with it.[/quote']

He's probably one of those players that shouldn't have his name shortened by using his initials.

[blid]

I know Matusz got it done but am I the only one who thinks he looks awful. 87-89 mph fastballs. He looked like he did as a starter. I saw an 87 mph fastball followed by an 84 mph changeup. Again, he got it done tonight but I don't like the way he looks. Probably the wrong thread for it, but Lombardozzi needs to make that play on Holt too.

I thought he looked pretty bad and was saying in the game thread that if he allowed one more baserunner he needed to be pulled. Of course he then took care of business, and came out for another inning and did well again. I'm pleased and impressed Buck got that many innings out of him and we held onto the lead, but Brian's pitching still scares me.

[Outlander]

A couple things. One, I my gut told me buck was leaving Tilly out there for the win, but the more I think, it was probably just a matter with showing faith, and saving relievers. Second, yes Matusz had weak velocity and didn't look great. But keep in mind that he does have four pitches, so he can get away with looking bad to us, but still keeping hitters off balance. This is why I would take him in a start over Britton. Britton looks better with his pitch in short stints. But while Matusz may look hittable for a bit, like all staters can, his repertoire gives me more faith in his starter ability.

[murph]

1. I know he got away with it, but he should have yanked Tillman one or two batters before he did IMO. He was laboring badly on a freezing cold night. That's how you hurt a guy's arm. Sure I know Tillman was well rested and he can go 120 on occasion, but 122 in five innings is a lot of stress on the arm.

2. I loved his decision to stretch Matusz to 2.2. Good time to pull him, too.

3. I like him letting O'Day close it out. Now we have five relievers available for the day game tomorrow.

4. He got Lough in there for defense and he immediately threw out Bogaerts out at 2B.

Honestly, how do we know this? Many have said here (COC sticks out in my mind) that Tillman can go longer than most. How do we know what stress's effect certain pitchers for sure. Tillman did look like he was pushing a bit, but can't a pitcher be pushed? Even in the cold? I know you need to keep the arm warm, but he was working fast and probably kept it warm between innings. Why does the cold mean it was such a risk that so many think he should have been pulled of arm safety? Really curious...

Definitely understand the feeling that Tillman should have been pulled on the last batter or two...just wondering why so many are pointing to the cold as such a risk....

[BohKnowsBmore]

A couple things. One, I my gut told me buck was leaving Tilly out there for the win, but the more I think, it was probably just a matter with showing faith, and saving relievers. Second, yes Matusz had weak velocity and didn't look great. But keep in mind that he does have four pitches, so he can get away with looking bad to us, but still keeping hitters off balance. This is why I would take him in a start over Britton. Britton looks better with his pitch in short stints. But while Matusz may look hittable for a bit, like all staters can, his repertoire gives me more faith in his starter ability.

Honestly, I don't think the conditions made it easy on any of the pitchers in that game.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Around pitches 105-15, Tillman had dropped down to throwing 87-89 mph fastballs. He was clearly gassed. That's when you have to take a guy out - not just because he's not ineffective anymore, but because that's when he's going to get hurt. Pushing your body to the limit like that greatly increases the chance for injury. Showalter routinely does this to Chen all the time, because he gets fatigued around 90-100 pitches and Showalter always needs to get him to that 100+ point before he pulls him.

Tillman can definitely go 110 pitches routinely without the fatigue affecting him. But tonight was a cold night in Boston in April and he was laboring all night against Boston's lineup. He was gassed at 110, and he showed it. What I am worried about is that for the last two batters, he dialed the velocity back up. That's when he was trying to do too much, that's where he is really at risk for getting hurt. I know he was on extra rest today, but he's going to be on normal rest his next start.

I will be watching closely the next start to see if Tillman is showing any ill effects. There was no reason, except for chasing the pitcher win, to let Tillman keep going rather than bringing in Matusz in the middle of the 5th inning.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Around pitches 105-15, Tillman had dropped down to throwing 87-89 mph fastballs. He was clearly gassed. That's when you have to take a guy out - not just because he's not ineffective anymore, but because that's when he's going to get hurt. Pushing your body to the limit like that greatly increases the chance for injury. Showalter routinely does this to Chen all the time, because he gets fatigued around 90-100 pitches and Showalter always needs to get him to that 100+ point before he pulls him.

Tillman can definitely go 110 pitches routinely without the fatigue affecting him. But tonight was a cold night in Boston in April and he was laboring all night against Boston's lineup. He was gassed at 110, and he showed it. What I am worried about is that for the last two batters, he dialed the velocity back up. That's when he was trying to do too much, that's where he is really at risk for getting hurt. I know he was on extra rest today, but he's going to be on normal rest his next start.

I will be watching closely the next start to see if Tillman is showing any ill effects. There was no reason, except for chasing the pitcher win, to let Tillman keep going rather than bringing in Matusz in the middle of the 5th inning.

I feel like a few reasons have been mentioned by several posters, both in the game thread and various threads throughout this area. Whether you choose to accept those reasons or not is your choice I guess.

[Outlander]

Around pitches 105-15, Tillman had dropped down to throwing 87-89 mph fastballs. He was clearly gassed. That's when you have to take a guy out - not just because he's not ineffective anymore, but because that's when he's going to get hurt. Pushing your body to the limit like that greatly increases the chance for injury. Showalter routinely does this to Chen all the time, because he gets fatigued around 90-100 pitches and Showalter always needs to get him to that 100+ point before he pulls him.

Tillman can definitely go 110 pitches routinely without the fatigue affecting him. But tonight was a cold night in Boston in April and he was laboring all night against Boston's lineup. He was gassed at 110, and he showed it. What I am worried about is that for the last two batters, he dialed the velocity back up. That's when he was trying to do too much, that's where he is really at risk for getting hurt. I know he was on extra rest today, but he's going to be on normal rest his next start.

I will be watching closely the next start to see if Tillman is showing any ill effects. There was no reason, except for chasing the pitcher win, to let Tillman keep going rather than bringing in Matusz in the middle of the 5th inning.

While I see your point, Tillmans velocity is one of the most unexplainable things on this team. He's 87, he's 93, he's 89, he's 95, he hit 98 in 2012 in his first start. I don't think we can chalk his velocity up to fatigue or max effort.

[CaptainRedbeard]

While I see your point, Tillmans velocity is one of the most unexplainable things on this team. He's 87, he's 93, he's 89, he's 95, he hit 98 in 2012 in his first start. I don't think we can chalk his velocity up to fatigue or max effort.

I agree, his velocity is more erratic than most, particularly game-to-game but also within each game to some degree. I think it's because he's so tall, his mechanics can get a little wonky at times. But I don't think Buck should have ignored the risk that he was putting him in by pushing him that hard.

Also, It's one thing to throw 120 pitches over 7 or 8 innings, when you are averaging a reasonable number of pitches per inning and have lots of rest in between. Tillman threw about 24 pitches per inning for 5 innings. That's just brutal.

[CaptainRedbeard]

I feel like a few reasons have been mentioned by several posters, both in the game thread and various threads throughout this area. Whether you choose to accept those reasons or not is your choice I guess.

I didn't feel like any of those reasons weighed more strongly in Buck's mind than the idea that Tillman was The Ace and deserves a shot at the W and that he needed to support him - maybe I am wrong about that. But I see that decision as all archaic, dated thinking based on an obsolete and meaningless statistic. When it doesn't really matter, like most of time with the Save Rule, it doesn't bother me. When you start compromising the health of your pitchers, like pushing the starter way too many pitches or bringing in the closer for the 5th game in 6 days or something like that, I start to get upset. But yes, that is just my opinion.

[notyourbuddy]

Tillman's pitch count was very high and he was clearly gassed. The batter coming to the plate has good numbers against righties and was already 1-for-1 with a walk on the night.

Meanwhile this hitter's numbers against lefties in his short MLB career are absolutely putrid (.093/.204/.116) and you've got a lefty in the pen warmed up who just so happens to be good at getting lefties out.

Sure did look like stat padding to me.

Just doesn't seem wise to unnecessarily ride a pitcher like that in frigid temperatures when he is pitching on fumes. Especially the one player this team cannot afford to lose to an injury of any kind. Oh well... whats done is done.

[MarylandAaron]

Totally agree that Buck should have pulled Tillman earlier. Not only were we risking Tillman's health there, but also the lead.

Matusz seems to be a controversial figure around here... I personally really like him. Good slider, changeup has a ton of drop to it, and his FB velocity will get better as the year goes on IMO.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Tillman's pitch count was very high and he was clearly gassed. The batter coming to the plate has good numbers against righties and was already 1-for-1 with a walk on the night.

Meanwhile this hitter's numbers against lefties in his short MLB career are absolutely putrid (.093/.204/.116) and you've got a lefty in the pen warmed up who just so happens to be good at getting lefties out.

Sure did look like stat padding to me.

Just doesn't seem wise to unnecessarily ride a pitcher like that in frigid temperatures when he is pitching on fumes. Especially the one player this team cannot afford to lose to an injury of any kind. Oh well... whats done is done.

This is right on. Tillman had no business facing anybody past Bogaerts with Matusz warm in the pen for Pierzynski and Bradley.