Buck's decisions tonight

[chamdog]

I loved this move by Buck he continues to let Tillman grow his confidence. Joe Angel said it tonight "Tillman is being given the respect of an ace" I say he's earned it.:clap3:

[Norfolk orioles]

I loved this move by Buck he continues to let Tillman grow his confidence. Joe Angel said it tonight "Tillman is being given the respect of an ace" I say he's earned it.:clap3:

I think it was a horrible decision.

He's our ace regardless of what he does in 1 April performance.

But an ace who's on the shelf half the season or more because he was left out far too long by his manager when anyone with functioning eye balls could see he was completely done for the sole purpose of getting that silly W next to his name is the last thing we need and completely ridiculous.

Horrible decision by buck tonight.

I also don't see any reason at all Delmon young should EVER be playing in the field. Ever. Forever ever.

[Roll Tide]

I think it was a horrible decision.

He's our ace regardless of what he does in 1 April performance.

But an ace who's on the shelf half the season or more because he was left out far too long by his manager when anyone with functioning eye balls could see he was completely done for the sole purpose of getting that silly W next to his name is the last thing we need and completely ridiculous.

Horrible decision by buck tonight.

I also don't see any reason at all Delmon young should EVER be playing in the field. Ever. Forever ever.

Go around the league and give me a few examples of other teams managers pulling their ace with 2 outs in the 5th and a 3 run lead. I think you'll find the pitcher gets the benefit of the doubt in these cases.

[Norfolk orioles]

Go around the league and give me a few examples of other teams managers pulling their ace with 2 outs in the 5th and a 3 run lead. I think you'll find the pitcher gets the benefit of the doubt in these cases.

I've seen verlander get pulled in the 4th with a lead multiple times, especially earlier in his career when he wasted a ton of pitches trying to strike out every batter he faced.

A good manager makes the correct call, saves his starters arm and the lead for the team.

I still think Buck is a good manager, but even though it worked out for us tonight, no one will ever convince me that was the RIGHT decision.

Tillman didn't have it and it nearly cost us the lead, nevermind any possible long term negative effects.

[Dark Helmet]

Wins and losses are important to a SP. Tillman is the ace of the staff and has earned a right to be given every chance to get a win. And he's better than anyone who would come out of the bp to replace him.

As for Matusz, it's clear he will never be a SP in mlb. His stuff just isn't good enough to get RH out. He needs to just accept he's a LH specialist at this point.

And Delmon Young needs to see more AB. Seems he's in shape and motivated. Could be the key pickup of the offseason. He hasn't looked bad in LF either. Loughs defense doesn't make up for his anemic bat imo.

[Just Regular]

If I'm Troy Patton, I'm breathing a little easier seeing Buck use both Britton and Matusz in long roles. If I'm Josh Stinson, I'm a bit more worried about Patton's return date right now.

That said, it's hard to picture either Britton or Matusz first guy in when the 3rd inning disaster occasionally pops up, but maybe part of Buck stretching Matusz out in the spring was with this contingency in mind.

[Dark Helmet]

If I'm Troy Patton, I'm breathing a little easier seeing Buck use both Britton and Matusz in long roles. If I'm Josh Stinson, I'm a bit more worried about Patton's return date right now.

That said, it's hard to picture either Britton or Matusz first guy in when the 3rd inning disaster occasionally pops up, but maybe part of Buck stretching Matusz out in the spring was with this contingency in mind.

At this point, I think Stinson goes. Even though I don't have much faith in he nor Meek. But they also have Ayala once he gets healthy. Besides, with the lack of deep games by the starters thus far, there is plenty of room for all the relievers. If Buck isn't going to use Pearce, he may consider an 8 man pen.

[Frobby]

Around pitches 105-15, Tillman had dropped down to throwing 87-89 mph fastballs. He was clearly gassed. That's when you have to take a guy out - not just because he's not ineffective anymore, but because that's when he's going to get hurt. Pushing your body to the limit like that greatly increases the chance for injury. Showalter routinely does this to Chen all the time, because he gets fatigued around 90-100 pitches and Showalter always needs to get him to that 100+ point before he pulls him.

Tillman can definitely go 110 pitches routinely without the fatigue affecting him. But tonight was a cold night in Boston in April and he was laboring all night against Boston's lineup. He was gassed at 110, and he showed it. What I am worried about is that for the last two batters, he dialed the velocity back up. That's when he was trying to do too much, that's where he is really at risk for getting hurt. I know he was on extra rest today, but he's going to be on normal rest his next start.

I will be watching closely the next start to see if Tillman is showing any ill effects. There was no reason, except for chasing the pitcher win, to let Tillman keep going rather than bringing in Matusz in the middle of the 5th inning.

This sums up what I was trying to say. There are nights where Tillman is sailing along in the 8th inning and if he throws 122 pitches on a night like that, God bless him. 122 pitches in 5 innings is a different can of worms. I'll be very interested to see how Tillman throws next time after an outing like this.

[Dark Helmet]

This sums up what I was trying to say. There are nights where Tillman is sailing along in the 8th inning and if he throws 122 pitches on a night like that, God bless him. 122 pitches in 5 innings is a different can of worms. I'll be very interested to see how Tillman throws next time after an outing like this.

Tillman was throwing 92 to the final batter he faced. I'm of the mindset that pitch count is overrated. This is an age where everyone worries about pitch counts, yet we are seeing an extremely high number of arm injuries. I think it has to do more with how these pitchers train, rather than how many pitches they throw. I'm not a Dr, so thats just opinion.

[Frobby]

Wins and losses are important to a SP. Tillman is the ace of the staff and has earned a right to be given every chance to get a win. And he's better than anyone who would come out of the bp to replace him.

You guys just aren't listening to those of us who think Tillman should have been pulled. It's not about his pride. It's not about whether he gave a damn about getting credit for the win. It's not even about maximizing our chances of winning the game (though I was very concerned Tillman was going to implode).

It's about protecting Tillman's arm. Don't let a guy hurt himself by pushing himself over the edge out of pride. That was a dangerous situation last night.

[Dark Helmet]

You guys just aren't listening to those of us who think Tillman should have been pulled. It's not about his pride. It's not about whether he gave a damn about getting credit for the win. It's not even about maximizing our chances of winning the game (though I was very concerned Tillman was going to implode).

It's about protecting Tillman's arm. Don't let a guy hurt himself by pushing himself over the edge out of pride. That was a dangerous situation last night.

I am listening. I just don't agree. Like I said, I think pitch counts are overrated. Bases loaded 0 outs in the first inning, a pitcher is pushing himself. He can just as easily hurt his arm. It's a crapshoot.

[Frobby]

I am listening. I just don't agree. Like I said, I think pitch counts are overrated. Bases loaded 0 outs in the first inning, a pitcher is pushing himself. He can just as easily hurt his arm. It's a crapshoot.

That's fine, we can disagree about the amount of risk involved. I just wanted to make clear that that's the concern, not some other issue about Tillman's psyche. I think Buck has amply demonstrated over the last year the confidence he has in Tillman. He gets more rope than any other starter, and he should, because he's proven he can handle it. I just didn't like that situation last night from a health risk point of view.

[Dark Helmet]

That's fine, we can disagree about the amount of risk involved. I just wanted to make clear that that's the concern, not some other issue about Tillman's psyche. I think Buck has amply demonstrated over the last year the confidence he has in Tillman. He gets more rope than any other starter, and he should, because he's proven he can handle it. I just didn't like that situation last night from a health risk point of view.

That's fair. I don't think anyone will ever be able to prove or disprove if pitch counts matter. I think Buck is old school and he's going to stick with his guy. A tired Tillman is still better than Matusz, Meek, and Stinson. Could be he just has no faith in the guys he has to bridge the gap to the 7-9 innings (Other than Britton).

[MrOrange82]

That's fine, we can disagree about the amount of risk involved. I just wanted to make clear that that's the concern, not some other issue about Tillman's psyche. I think Buck has amply demonstrated over the last year the confidence he has in Tillman. He gets more rope than any other starter, and he should, because he's proven he can handle it. I just didn't like that situation last night from a health risk point of view.

I didn't like it from a health perspective, either, but you could tell (especially with Matt's reaction to that final strikeout) how much Tillman's staying out there meant to the team. IMO, that was an example of one of those less-than-quality-start starts that really, truly deserved the "W." Brutal conditions that Tillman gutted his way through.

[Slappy]

I didn't feel like any of those reasons weighed more strongly in Buck's mind than the idea that Tillman was The Ace and deserves a shot at the W and that he needed to support him - maybe I am wrong about that. But I see that decision as all archaic, dated thinking based on an obsolete and meaningless statistic. When it doesn't really matter, like most of time with the Save Rule, it doesn't bother me. When you start compromising the health of your pitchers, like pushing the starter way too many pitches or bringing in the closer for the 5th game in 6 days or something like that, I start to get upset. But yes, that is just my opinion.

The W means something to the pitcher, right? Also, as a few others mentioned, we haven't gotten much length out of our starters and are starting a stretch of 9 in 9 days. I don't think the decision to leave him in there was a horrible one. Like Palmer said, Bradley was his last batter regardless.

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