Roch: Dan Duquette on Wieters and Orioles Catchers

[El Gordo]

If there was a clear need for surgery they would be doing it now. Boras wouldn't stand for less. It must be a grey area, for him to accept the 6 weeks. It's all about what's in it for Matt. If he actually can come back and play, that's the best for him as well as the O's

[Sanfran327]

Flexor mass is used to describe the area of pain. Often the cure is Tommy John. Which rarely works on catchers, Hence, the wait and see right now.

You've said this a few times. Is this potentially career threatening? I guess he could always move to 1st, but would it be an issue there, too?

[Roll Tide]

Flipping great news

[weams]

You've said this a few times. Is this potentially career threatening? I guess he could always move to 1st, but would it be an issue there, too?

It is potentially catcher ending. Most caters who have this surgery do not catch effectively again. Taylor Teagarden, and John Baker are the only names for which I had heard it declared a success. Baseball wise. Quality of life issues, notwithstanding.

[weams]

Matt Wieters is not useful to this team or most teams at first base. His real value is at catcher.Its like

Joe Mauer. He's a solid player, but his first base play is more stop gap for his contract than it is

preferred by management.

It was absolutely Mauer's choice to do this and NOT the team.

[Sanfran327]

Matt Wieters is not useful to this team or most teams at first base. His real value is at catcher.Its like

Joe Mauer. He's a solid player, but his first base play is more stop gap for his contract than it is

preferred by management.

It is potentially catcher ending. Most caters who have this surgery do not catch effectively again. Taylor Teagarden, and John Baker are the only names for which I had heard it declared a success. Baseball wise. Quality of life issues, notwithstanding.

Do you think there is any chance he sticks around long term as a full time DH? It should make him substantially cheaper.

[weams]

Do you think there is any chance he sticks around long term as a full time DH? It should make him substantially cheaper.

No. Absolutely not.

[Ohfan67]

It is potentially catcher ending. Most caters who have this surgery do not catch effectively again. Taylor Teagarden, and John Baker are the only names for which I had heard it declared a success. Baseball wise. Quality of life issues, notwithstanding.

But isn't it pretty rare surgery for catchers? And weren't the majority if not all of the catchers who had the surgery marginal players before surgery? I don't know, just asking. I don't remember a significant catcher even having this surgery. It seems like the only way the surgery could have different outcomes for catchers is if there is additional or very different damage associated with the ligament. They replace the ligament and pitchers are often able to slow slightly harder after surgery. It seems biologically impossible that replacing the ligament would produce different outcomes unless catchers tend to have damage beyond just the ligament tear. Know what I mean?

[weams]

But isn't it pretty rare surgery for catchers? And weren't the majority if not all of the catchers who had the surgery marginal players before surgery? I don't know, just asking. I don't remember a significant catcher even having this surgery. It seems like the only way the surgery could have different outcomes for catchers is if there is additional or very different damage associated with the ligament. They replace the ligament and pitchers are often able to slow slightly harder after surgery. It seems biologically impossible that replacing the ligament would produce different outcomes unless catchers tend to have damage beyond just the ligament tear. Know what I mean?

Excellent points. Until Matt Wieters becomes that one guy, all we have to look at is Taylor Teagarden for results.

[Ohfan67]

Excellent points. Until Matt Wieters becomes that one guy, all we have to look at is Taylor Teagarden for results.

And unfortunately it does sound more and more like Wieters will be an example soon. Bummer.

[weams]

But isn't it pretty rare surgery for catchers? And weren't the majority if not all of the catchers who had the surgery marginal players before surgery? I don't know, just asking. I don't remember a significant catcher even having this surgery. It seems like the only way the surgery could have different outcomes for catchers is if there is additional or very different damage associated with the ligament. They replace the ligament and pitchers are often able to slow slightly harder after surgery. It seems biologically impossible that replacing the ligament would produce different outcomes unless catchers tend to have damage beyond just the ligament tear. Know what I mean?

So let's say he does have it done, and it is great for him. I guess we can look forward to him playing we for the last three months that we have him.

[weams]

And unfortunately it does sound more and more like Wieters will be an example soon. Bummer.

Viviano and Roch have been talking in code all show on this.

[weams]

And unfortunately it does sound more and more like Wieters will be an example soon. Bummer.

Let's look at it this way. Pitchers are quarterbacks. Catchers are runningbacks. Catching careers tend to be brief. So I would assume that would enter in to the fact that catchers would be less likely to return to prior form. Aging catchers are not sought after. Look at McCann even. If the Yankees could take that back right now you don't think they would?

[weams]

Look at McCann even. If the Yankees could take that back right now you don't think they would?

If you think Chris Davis is in a slump, McCann is SO much worse. 100 points in OBP and 200 in OPS.

[csgordos]

Catchers typically do not throw as hard as pitchers. But do have snap throws and high velocity to the bases. The difference is the amount of throwing. Catchers have to throw everyday all game long vs pitchers. It is a lot of wear and tear on the arm. Weiters is / was an anomaly because of the velocity he can throw with. He is a weapon behind the plate. If he loses that he value diminishes greatly.

One other important point to be made aware of. No pitcher will throw harder after Tommy John surgery vs what they do if they weren't injured. The difference comes from the fact that they were typically pitching in soreness or pain prior to surgery, and then after surgery with the pain removed they can now throw harder. But pre-injury they will always be able to throw as hard or harder then after surgery. You're not ever better after surgery then you are if you would never been injured.