MacPhail: Angelos didn't veto Bedard deal - per AM

[Cokeman]

He also hit the nail on the head. MacPhail provided that little bit of info: that he's been in regular contact with Angelos. That same little bit of info that MacPhail offered as evidence that Angelos didn't totally come in after the fact and crush MacPhail's work is also irrefutable evidence that MacPhail doesn't have full autonomy.

MacPhail has said that's the way he's always conducted business, wherever he has been...to me, that alone doesn't show whether he has full authority or not.

[NewMarketSean]

I think the biggest difference between AM and previous GM's is that PGA trusts AM, or so we've been lead to believe. It really doesn't matter how much of a role PGA has in things, and yeah it would be nice if he would just set up parameters and let AM work his magic, but as long as PGA trusts AM and knows his vision and understands what he's working toward, then it really doesn't matter how much of a role PGA has in things. As long as he doesn't slow the process down.

[JTrea81]

I think the biggest difference between AM and previous GM's is that PGA trusts AM, or so we've been lead to believe. It really doesn't matter how much of a role PGA has in things, and yeah it would be nice if he would just set up parameters and let AM work his magic, but as long as PGA trusts AM and knows his vision and understands what he's working toward, then it really doesn't matter how much of a role PGA has in things. As long as he doesn't slow the process down.

You still think he trusts MacPhail's judgement when he's pursuing an extension for Bedard even though MacPhail says it's a bad idea?

[Tony-OH]

He is in contact with Angelos. He should be in touch with the man. I'm not sure how that is wrong. The man does own the team, and does have the right to know what was going on. I would certainly want to hear the things going on if I owned the team. Everyone would! The point I was trying to make is Angelos hasn't stop AM from following his plan. We have no evidence to say that he has. Trust me, if it comes out that Angelos is still playing an active role and has overuled AM, my interest in the team will really diminsh.I just tend to believe that people are throwin' him under the bus too soon.

Notice I never said it was wrong, but it's not "full authority." I'm not insinuating anything other than making a comment on what we know for a fact. MacPhail has talked about having to go through Angelos before finalizing a trade.

We've now had two incidents where trades have reportedly been very, very close including one that included a player saying he was coming to Baltimore for a physical. Something keeps happening that changes these situations. I have no idea if Angelos is nixing trades, not available, getting mad over leaks, or just plain sitting on the sides while MacPhail takes his time with all of this.

What we do know is that Angelos has gone on record as saying he's blocked the Roberts trade and Bonilla trade (both of which worked out in the O's favor). If I recall correctly, he also denied the Aaron Sele signing and he went on to win over 30 games over the next two seasons in Seattle. I don't recall Angelos admitting that one, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Either way, we have a track record of Angelos being involved to the point of vetoing trades his baseball people put together and now we have MacPhail saying he is in constant contact with Angelos over these deals and deals that are reportedly by numerous sources as being ver, very close keep not happening.

Sounds like too much of a coincidence for me, but if MacPhail wants to stake his reputation by telling everyone that Angelos is not vetoing these deals, then I have no reason not to believe him, for now.

[NewMarketSean]

You still think he trusts MacPhail's judgement when he's pursuing an extension for Bedard even though MacPhail says it's a bad idea?

It depends what that was all about... I think it was bad if Angelos decided he wanted to sign Bedard to an extension, going around AM.

I'm just so skeptical to believe anything right now, whether it is good or bad.

[JTrea81]

BTW, Churchill also thinks MacPhail resigns if Angelos kills the Seattle deal:

Angelos would rather extend Bedard than trade, but from the sound of it, and I’m going off 50% what we can all read at several media outlets, 25% what I’m being told by those close to the situation and 25% gut, Angelos just wants to make darn sure that extending Bedard isn’t possible before issuing his ok to trade him.

Honestly, jtrea, I’d love to tell you that I don’t think it will go through, but I think in the end McPhail wins out on this because Angelos did tell him he’d have autonomy on baseball decisions.

If Angelos overrules him, McPhail will probably quit on the spot from what I hear, and if that happens, what GM is ever going to want to work for Angelos?

http://prospectinsider.com/2008/01/27/jones-bedard-deal-99-percent-done/#comment-7344

[Belkast]

Notice I never said it was wrong, but it's not "full authority." I'm not insinuating anything other than making a comment on what we know for a fact. MacPhail has talked about having to go through Angelos before finalizing a trade.

We've now had two incidents where trades have reportedly been very, very close including one that included a player saying he was coming to Baltimore for a physical. Something keeps happening that changes these situations. I have no idea if Angelos is nixing trades, not available, getting mad over leaks, or just plain sitting on the sides while MacPhail takes his time with all of this.

What we do know is that Angelos has gone on record as saying he's blocked the Roberts trade and Bonilla trade (both of which worked out in the O's favor). If I recall correctly, he also denied the Aaron Sele signing and he went on to win over 30 games over the next two seasons in Seattle. I don't recall Angelos admitting that one, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Either way, we have a track record of Angelos being involved to the point of vetoing trades his baseball people put together and now we have MacPhail saying he is in constant contact with Angelos over these deals and deals that are reportedly by numerous sources as being ver, very close keep not happening.

Sounds like too much of a coincidence for me, but if MacPhail wants to stake his reputation by telling everyone that Angelos is not vetoing these deals, then I have no reason not to believe him, for now.

I understand the feelings toward Angelos, I really do. He has been involved way too much in the past. His past is why people think he is meddling now. But he has gone on record as vetoing deals before and as of now we haven't heard anything from him. I gave him a clean slate when AM came on board. Until he proves otherwise I will continue to believe that he is not screwing things up.

[Hank Scorpio]

BTW, Churchill also thinks MacPhail resigns if Angelos kills the Seattle deal:

http://prospectinsider.com/2008/01/27/jones-bedard-deal-99-percent-done/#comment-7344

That's because Churchill is reading the board.

This isn't comforting at all, though. How much more does this guy know than anyone around here?

[Mackus]

I understand the feelings toward Angelos, I really do. He has been involved way too much in the past. His past is why people think he is meddling now. But he has gone on record as vetoing deals before and as of now we haven't heard anything from him. I gave him a clean slate when AM came on board. Until he proves otherwise I will continue to believe that he is not screwing things up.

What does he have to do to prove otherwise?

And do you believe that he didn't veto a Roberts deal?

[glorydays]

If I recall correctly, he also denied the Aaron Sele signing and he went on to win over 30 games over the next two seasons in Seattle. I don't recall Angelos admitting that one, but perhaps I'm wrong.

The M's boards are still laughing their butts off about that one. They are hoping PA does them a favor again and blocks this trade.

[glenn__davis]

The M's boards are still laughing their butts off about that one. They are hoping PA does them a favor again and blocks this trade.

They shouldn't be. Sele blew his arm out and the M's ended up paying him a lot of money for nothing for the remainder of his contract. One of the few times when Angelos' involvement was both correct and warranted.

[JTrea81]

That's because Churchill is reading the board.

This isn't comforting at all, though. How much more does this guy know than anyone around here?

He has inside sources in the Orioles FO as well...

[TakebackOPACY]

MacPhail has said that's the way he's always conducted business, wherever he has been...to me, that alone doesn't show whether he has full authority or not.

That's fair enough. If we look at these two scenarios:

1. MacPhail respectfully keeps Angelos in the loop,

2. Angelos meddles,

they sound so extremely different. But the line between scenario 1 and the beginning of scenario 2 is awful gray.

[TonySoprano]

They shouldn't be. Sele blew his arm out and the M's ended up paying him a lot of money for nothing for the remainder of his contract. One of the few times when Angelos' involvement was both correct and warranted.

Pat Gillick signed him to a three-year deal and got two serviceable years from him (the second one with an ERA+ of 116) before dealing him to the Angels.

[Tony-OH]

They shouldn't be. Sele blew his arm out and the M's ended up paying him a lot of money for nothing for the remainder of his contract. One of the few times when Angelos' involvement was both correct and warranted.

He pitched 586 innings before he was hurt with Anaheim, three seasons later. The Orioles were close to siging him to a three year deal. I'll take 2 3/4 seasons out of three and 40 wins.