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Are the pitchers improving that much or is it Joseph?

wildcard

By wildcard
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ExileAngelos All-Star

ExileAngelos

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Folks,

He spent four years at Bowie.

That is as long as most of our starters spent in the minors.

They had eyes on him.

If he was really this good a defensive catcher they would have noticed.

I am enjoying the fairy tale but prepare for him to turn back into a pumpkin.

I am not sure I agree here. I can see if a hot hitter turning back into a pumpkin but how do you play this far above you head defensively? The whole thing is a bit of a mystery to me.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I am not sure I agree here. I can see if a hot hitter turning back into a pumpkin but how do you play this far above you head defensively? The whole thing is a bit of a mystery to me.

Don't look at defensive stats much do you?

In 2011 Andino was worth 1.4 DWAR. His highest total in any other year? .7, his next highest .4.

In 2013 Flaherty was worth .6 DWAR, in 2012 and 2014 he has been worth 0.0

In 2012 Trout was worth 2.1 DWAR, in 2013 -.9 DWAR

There is a reason folks say you have to look at more then one season's worth of data when looking at defensive metrics.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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I am not sure I agree here. I can see if a hot hitter turning back into a pumpkin but how do you play this far above you head defensively? The whole thing is a bit of a mystery to me.

Because it's not a result of his abilities that the pitching staff is pitching better. And maybe part of the reason he's catching half of basestealers is that they're attempting almost a steal a game when he's behind the plate, about twice the rate of attempts with Wieters catching.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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I heard on the game broadcast the other night - It might have been Palmer - that Brady was consistently in Buck's ear saying that we might be miss something by not promoting Joseph. So at least Brady was in Caleb's corner.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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In June the O's have a 3.16 ERA second in the AL. Joseph has a 2.87 ERA in the games he has caught in May and June. That is about a run less then an average year for Wieters. Hundley has a 4.45 ERA since joining the O's with the same pitching staff.

Oh, and Joseph is 12 for 24 (50%) in throwing out runs.

Way to go Rookie.

What do you think? Is the pitching just getting better or are Joseph game calling, defense and throwing skills making the difference?

I believe it is both.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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As for CayJo's defensive improvement, it would seem to me that catcher involves more learned skills v native talent, than most other positions. So he could get better over time. Also with Wieters on the ML it made sense to leave him at Bowie and use Norfolk to park the ML back up options. I think he has made himself into a good defensive catcher but I don't think he's the reason the SP has improved.

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Reboulet'sStache Veteran All-Star

Reboulet'sStache

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Folks,

He spent four years at Bowie.

That is as long as most of our starters spent in the minors.

They had eyes on him.

If he was really this good a defensive catcher they would have noticed.

I am enjoying the fairy tale but prepare for him to turn back into a pumpkin.

Long time lurker, first time posting.

I'm not sure that is the proper way to frame the issue as it regards the rotation's improvement. Whether Joseph is actually this good defensively, or playing above his head, is a separate issue. The real question is: at whatever level Joseph is currently playing above his real skill set, as it regards framing pitches, calling games, etc., is that on-field product playing a big role in the rotation's new found success? One can say "Yes," without conceding that this current skill level is how Joseph will continue to play in the future. "Yes" just means that this out of mind level of play benefits the O's rotation, and if Joseph isn't capable of playing at this level, the O's should MAYBE look to find a catcher who can do these on an everyday basis. Has Joseph's abnormal play (at least for him) shown us something that has been missing from the catcher position over the last few years, and has been greatly needed?

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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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In 2013 Joseph's Baysox were a .500 team with average pitching.

In 2012 Joseph's Baysox were a good team with average pitching.

In 2011 Joseph's Baysox were a good team with pitching that ranked 4th of 12 EL teams.

In 2010 Joseph's Baysox were an over-.500 team with average EL pitching.

If he's a catcher whose presence is enough to dramatically improve a pitching staff in even a small sample of games then we'd have to conclude he's either changed something very significantly very recently, or that the Baysox actually had bad pitching over the last four years and he improved it to average.

Trying to measure the catchers influence on ML pitcher performance is hard enough. Using AA with the volatility and composition of AA pitching staffs from year to year really isn't worth considering imo.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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Folks,

He spent four years at Bowie.

That is as long as most of our starters spent in the minors.

They had eyes on him.

If he was really this good a defensive catcher they would have noticed.

I am enjoying the fairy tale but prepare for him to turn back into a pumpkin.

Well maybe he won't turn back into a pumpkin. Maybe he is for real. I like to

think he is the real deal.

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