Was ERod too much for Andrew Miller

[Teddy OBP]

So, regardless of cost, make deals to give the illusion it makes the team that much better then it already was.

Of course not. That's certainly not what he said. If the deal costs then it would presumably not be an illusion that we got better.

However, I'm happy with what we did considering the massive deals that went down. There isn't much we could have done to match trades for Lester or Price...not enough to pass the Tigers or A's when it was done.

We shortened the game to 6 innings for the most part, though which I think is a bargain for Ed Rod. It makes Hunter and Matusz more useful for matchups as well.

I also think we'll be active in the post waiver market. I think the Phillies are going to be willing to sell and the demand for their pieces just went down. I worry about the Yankees and Angels being willing to jump on bigger salaries, but hopefully the Yankees fall off sooner rather than later.

[mark_beckens]

Of course not. That's certainly not what he said. If the deal costs then it would presumably not be an illusion that we got better.

But I think more should have been done considering the position they are in.

You and I are not reading that sentence the same!

Is it possible that Oakland and Detriot are not as good as they were before they traded Cespedes, Jackson and Smyly?

If we trade Jones for Price or Lester, are we a better team?

[Jonesy10]

How. As far as I'm concerned ERod had just as good of a chance to be as good as bundy if not better.

Also I love how ppl are living in the past with JS. You are looking forward the future with Bundy but want to look at the past with JS because it makes you feel better about the Os.not getting him.

Answer me this. What does it make JS if the next five years he pitches as good as this year?

Well I am not sure you know who Bundy and Rodriguez are. Bundy was one of the top pitching prospects in the game before he got inured and is still a very highly rated prospect. Rodriguez isn't in the top 100 anymore. Bundy probably has a much higher ceiling and floor.

As for Samardzija, he has been very good this season. But he's still only been worth 2.5 WAR. Miller has been worth 1.4 WAR in 100 less innings. Meanwhile, Matusz has a -0.1 WAR. That's a huge upgrade. I'm not knocking Samardzija, but we may have had to trade Bundy and EdRod for him. He has a worse FIP and xFIP than Ian Kennedy who many didn't think was an upgrade to our staff at all. I like what the O's did and I'm extremely happy to have Bundy and Harvey still. I think if they were going to trade one of them, I would want to see someone better than Samardzija coming back.

[Stotle]

Well I am not sure you know who Bundy and Rodriguez are. Bundy was one of the top pitching prospects in the game before he got inured and is still a very highly rated prospect. Rodriguez isn't in the top 100 anymore. Bundy probably has a much higher ceiling and floor.

As for Samardzija, he has been very good this season. But he's still only been worth 2.5 WAR. Miller has been worth 1.4 WAR in 100 less innings. Meanwhile, Matusz has a -0.1 WAR. That's a huge upgrade. I'm not knocking Samardzija, but we may have had to trade Bundy and EdRod for him. He has a worse FIP and xFIP than Ian Kennedy who many didn't think was an upgrade to our staff at all. I like what the O's did and I'm extremely happy to have Bundy and Harvey still. I think if they were going to trade one of them, I would want to see someone better than Samardzija coming back.

WAR isn't a counting stat, right? So 1.4 WAR over a certain number of innings or games can't be used to project out expected WAR over a remaining number of innings/games (at least, that is my understanding). The issue with a relief acquisition is the upside is generally limited because of opportunity. While unlikely, it's possible that Price or Lester or Samardzija might be worth 2+ wins over the remainder of the season.

Miller is a nice fit for Baltimore. We don't need to talk down the potential impact of Price or Lester or Samardzija for that to remain true.

[Tony-OH]

So some people say it's too soon to tell if this was a win. Yet some people say don't trade Harvey or Bundy because they are going to be good. How is it to early to tell on one but not the other?

Some people like this trade. We give up our third or fourth best minor league pitcher for a reliever and ppl like it.

Yet the same ppl think trading a pitcher coming off TJ ( Bundy) would have been dumb to trade for Samardizja or Lester....Ridiculous.

Because there is a significant difference between Bundy's and E-Rod's upside. Rodrigues doesn't have great fastball command and it has hurt him at the Double-a level. His slider is well below average and is yet to show any real improvement. I like the changeup and think he has an upside of 3rd starter if his command gets better and his slider improves, but he's probably a 5th starter in the big leagues at best.

[Teddy OBP]

You and I are not reading that sentence the same!

Is it possible that Oakland and Detriot are not as good as they were before they traded Cespedes, Jackson and Smyly?

If we trade Jones for Price or Lester, are we a better team?

Ok, gotcha now. I lean more to Detroit being better for sure. Much less sure about the A's. Slightly different, but the mlb radio guys were talking about the Cards clubhouse being shocked and a little shaken about the Lackey trade. Moving guys off of the major league roster can have unintended consequences.

[davidhusker]

I'm just mad he's in the AL East. Aside from that... meh.

[weams]

I'm just mad he's in the AL East. Aside from that... meh.

He is actually in the Eastern League. And is liable to be next year. He's Boston's 9th rated pitching prospect today.

[HokieOs]

I was hoping to see what E-Rod would turn into for us, but he just netted us a very solid reliever so I can't be too upset. E-Rod is young and pitching in AA, but it's not like he's setting the world on fire in Bowie. He played a lot of last season in Bowie and had a 4.22 ERA and a WHIP approaching 1.3. Certainly nice for a 20 year old. But now at 21, and another year into AA, he seems to have regressed, with an ERA of 4.79 and a WHIP that has skyrocketed to 1.440. Solid K rates and a decent walk rate I guess, but I'm not sure we're talking a big time future starter. At best IMO, I think he could be come a #5 type starter/long reliever type.

Not that steep of a price to bolster a bullpen that could use the help.

[DrungoHazewood]

I was hoping to see what E-Rod would turn into for us, but he just netted us a very solid reliever so I can't be too upset. E-Rod is young and pitching in AA, but it's not like he's setting the world on fire in Bowie. He played a lot of last season in Bowie and had a 4.22 ERA and a WHIP approaching 1.3. Certainly nice for a 20 year old. But now at 21, and another year into AA, he seems to have regressed, with an ERA of 4.79 and a WHIP that has skyrocketed to 1.440. Solid K rates and a decent walk rate I guess, but I'm not sure we're talking a big time future starter. At best IMO, I think he could be come a #5 type starter/long reliever type.

Not that steep of a price to bolster a bullpen that could use the help.

There are eight EL starters who are 21. ERod is 5th in K rate, 6th in K/BB ratio, 6th in ERA, and 4th in HR/9. His value comes from his stuff and his scouting reports and relative youth, not his AA performance.

[Jonesy10]

WAR isn't a counting stat, right? So 1.4 WAR over a certain number of innings or games can't be used to project out expected WAR over a remaining number of innings/games (at least, that is my understanding). The issue with a relief acquisition is the upside is generally limited because of opportunity. While unlikely, it's possible that Price or Lester or Samardzija might be worth 2+ wins over the remainder of the season.

Miller is a nice fit for Baltimore. We don't need to talk down the potential impact of Price or Lester or Samardzija for that to remain true.

I'm not knocking on those trades for a TOR starter but it seems like everyone is now predicting a OAK-DET ALCS. Detroit seems to be the playoff opponent for the O's (if of course they make it). I just think it's an interesting topic. How much better did they really get this season and going into the playoffs? They'll gain about a win, maybe less, the rest of the season. The playoffs are really interesting though with Detroit. They downgrade from Jackson to Davis, they downgrade in the bullpen from an already weak pen (Smyly would have moved to the pen where is he awesome), and Rick Porcello is now no longer going to be starting in the playoffs (3rd best SP behind Scherzer and Sanchez in WAR, 2nd most IP/start, lowest ERA, 2nd lowest WHIP...all these rankings being without Price).

So looking at a potential BAL/DET ALDS matchup I don't think that much has changed. They significantly down grade their weak spot (bullpen) and lineup while putting Price in the mix while losing a very good pitcher from their postseason rotation (Porcello). Obviously Price is still a pretty big upgrade over Porcello in a postseason matchup but is it worth downgrading the other areas? Honestly, they may have been a pretty equal team heading into the post season just trading for the guy we got (Miller), letting Porcello start, keeping Jackson, and moving Smyly into the bullpen which would make it a very formidable pen (Miller, Smyly, Soria, Albuquerque, Nathan). I think it's just a pretty interesting topic and I would still take my chances in a series against Detroit.

[blid]

Wwoulda been kewW to get good ol' Koji.

[Number5]

Let's put it this way. I will be very happy if we face Detroit in the playoffs -- just as I would have been happy to face them in the playoffs before today's trades. Take care of business and get there. Once there, anything can happen. Whoever we face in the playoffs will be a good team. Miller increases our chances to get there, and win once there, IMO.

[PA724_Oriole]

So, regardless of cost, make deals to give the illusion it makes the team that much better then it already was.

What illusion? It's all speculation, not an illusion. No one wants to fool anybody here.

I want trades made because it will help the team IN MY SPECULATION. Just like some of you want to speculate that Bundy is going to be the next Strasburg or better.

No one will know how these trades or non trades will with out at least four the rest of this year. But there is no doubt in my mind Trading Bundy and other smaller pieces would make this team better this year had we got one of the three pitchers we were chasing.

[PA724_Oriole]

Of course not. That's certainly not what he said. If the deal costs then it would presumably not be an illusion that we got better.

However, I'm happy with what we did considering the massive deals that went down. There isn't much we could have done to match trades for Lester or Price...not enough to pass the Tigers or A's when it was done.

We shortened the game to 6 innings for the most part, though which I think is a bargain for Ed Rod. It makes Hunter and Matusz more useful for matchups as well.

I also think we'll be active in the post waiver market. I think the Phillies are going to be willing to sell and the demand for their pieces just went down. I worry about the Yankees and Angels being willing to jump on bigger salaries, but hopefully the Yankees fall off sooner rather than later.

Thank you, sir.