Jump to content

Interesting Stat on Adam Jones...


JDBirds10

Recommended Posts

On teams with Jim Presley as the hitting coach. OBP goes down, PPA goes down, and O-swing goes up. If that doesn't show it then your right I have nothing to support it. Swing early, swing often, and swing hard!

Did the article actually say that? I saw where it said Presley's teams tended to swing at a high-than-average number of pitches out of the strike zone, but nothing about those team's OBP's or PPA, and certainly nothing about whether any of these things increased or decreased under Presley. So I don't really know what you're talking about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 100
  • Created
  • Last Reply
On teams with Jim Presley as the hitting coach. OBP goes down, PPA goes down, and O-swing goes up. If that doesn't show it then your right I have nothing to support it. Swing early, swing often, and swing hard!

But who is on each of those teams? How old were they? What kind of players were there? What kind of turnover was there? Did they have an established MLB track record before, during and after Presley?

If you can't answer questions like that, then just saying a team's plate discipline may have gone down a bit during his tenure is meaningless. You're assigning blame to someone who has a small and indirect influence over the process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't subject yourself. It's not worth it, really. I'd say most see what you see.

I won't make any claims about "most" but I don't think it's at all difficult to come to the conclusion that coaching has a small effect on the approach of players who have been professional hitters for many years. In general major league players establish their swing tendencies and don't have those tendencies change. If the hitting coach was a driving factor in a team's approach you'd see players who change teams shift their approaches in noticable ways, and that doesn't happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On teams with Jim Presley as the hitting coach. OBP goes down, PPA goes down, and O-swing goes up. If that doesn't show it then your right I have nothing to support it. Swing early, swing often, and swing hard!

Just to humor you...

Just looking at OBP in the full seasons Presley was with the Marlins...

2006 Marlins, 331 OBP

M. Cabrera - 430 OBP, 396 Career, Presley decided to make this guy hit better than his career numbers

J. Willingham - 356 OBP, 358 Career, Not this one though

H. Ramirez - 353 OBP, 373 Career, this one either

D. Uggla - 339 OBP, 337 Career, gave the proper tutelage to this guy

J. Hermida - 332 OBP, 334 Career, screwed this dude over

A. Almezaga - 332 OBP, 307 Career, he must have really worked with this guy

M. Jacobs - 325 OBP, 313 Career, this guy too

2007 Marlins, 336 OBP

M. Cabrera - 401, 396, don't know where this guy would have been this year without the guidance of Jim Presley

H. Ramirez - 386, 373, this was the year he decided to stop screwing with Hanley and help him

J. Hermida - 369, 334, worked wonders with this guy

J. Willingham - 364, 358, screwed this guy over the year before but decided to put in the work this season

D. Uggla - 326, 337, what happened here? He exceeded his career numbers in 2006 but Presley must have gave him bad advice this season...

A. Almezaga - 324, 307, continued his great work with Alfredo

M. Jacobs - 317, 313, and Mike

M. Olivo - 262, 275, Presley must not have gotten along with Miguel

2008 Marlins, 326 OBP

H. Ramirez - 400, 373, Presley's magic wand continued to work miracles with this dude

J. Willingham - 364, 358, this guy too

D. Uggla - 360, 337, and this guy

L. Gonzalez - 336, 367, he must have skipped over this dude

J. Cantu - 327, 316, crap he's back to it

J. Hermida - 323, 334, oh no he's slipping again

C. Ross - 316, 323, will the slide ever stop?

A. Almezaga - 312, 307, pheww...that was a close won

M. Jacobs - 299 313, Oh no Jim!

2009 Marlins, 340 OBP

H. Ramirez - 410, 373, Working his magic

C. Coghlan - 390, 340, up

D. Uggla - 354, 337, and

J. Baker - 349, 330, down

J. Hermida - 348, 334, this

J. Cantu - 345, 316, lineup

C. Ross - 321, 323, oh no except for these two

E. Bonifacio - 303, 319, bums. Well maybe they just wouldn't take his teachings to heart like the others

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peyton Manning of Baseball.

Great Reg season player. Sucks in postseasn. Tries to do to much. Swings at balls in the dirt, still. And pulls his head on everything in the strikezone.

No hits off Guthrie after 3rd inning. Just pathetic throughout the whole lineup.

And yet he had his best at bat of the entire season in the top of the 9th inning with EVERYTHING on the line. 0-2 count and he worked a leadoff walk. Shoulda coulda woulda been the start of a miracle comeback- and from the unlikeliest of sources- but to me- further proof- that when he is truly focused, he CAN have selective aggression at the plate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peyton won a super bowl. He could have won more, but he won one and is in the club.

The ONE Superbowl he won he went thru Baltimore- throwing 2 picks- not scoring a single touchdown- but relied on his defense and Adam Vinatieri- and some horrendous Steve Mcnair interceptions to get the key W. With life after death, he rallied for a crazy 2nd half comeback vs New England at home- with some NFL payback for all the calls that always went the Pats way in New England- and then got to face Rex Grossman in the Superbowl.. in the rain...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laugh it up. But don't complain when guys swing at pitches outside the zone and pop/ground out on pitchers pitches because it's what is being coached. By him. Take swings strike zone be damned! OBP? Who needs that garbage we're going to hit bombs!

"Since we looked at OBP, let?s take a look at where Presley?s teams ranked in MLB in terms of greatest percentage of pitches swung at outside of the strike zone (courtesy of Fangraphs):

2005 Marlins: 15th

2006 Marlins: 13th

2007 Marlins: 7th

2008 Marlins: 14th

2009 Marlins: 17th

2010 Marlins: 11th

2011 Orioles: 7th

2012 Orioles: 9th

2013 Orioles: 8th

2014 Orioles: 2nd (as of May 17th)"

http://eutawstreetreport.com/should-the-os-fire-jim-presley/

Yeah, this analysis pretty much falls apart when you add:

2010 Orioles (without Presley): 2nd.

The Orioles were more prone to swinging at pitches outside the zone immediately before Presley arrived than after.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buster Olney just tweeted from ESPN Stats/Info:

"In his postseason career, Adam Jones has seen 29 pitches out of the strike zone with two strikes and has swung at 23 of them."

Hoping Adam Jones doesn't turn into the Alex Rodriguez of playoff baseball. This is two years now in which he has underperformed.

I'd like to know how that stat breaks down between 2012 and 2014. I don't think he was nearly as bad in 2014 as in 2012. For all the gnashing of teeth in this thread, Jones hit .250/.333/.438 in the ALCS. Yes, I think Adam has a tendency to try to do too much at times, but his overall impact on the team has been extremely positive so I'm not going to draw any huge conclusions based on what happened in a short series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to humor you...

Just looking at OBP in the full seasons Presley was with the Marlins...

2006 Marlins, 331 OBP

M. Cabrera - 430 OBP, 396 Career, Presley decided to make this guy hit better than his career numbers

J. Willingham - 356 OBP, 358 Career, Not this one though

H. Ramirez - 353 OBP, 373 Career, this one either

D. Uggla - 339 OBP, 337 Career, gave the proper tutelage to this guy

J. Hermida - 332 OBP, 334 Career, screwed this dude over

A. Almezaga - 332 OBP, 307 Career, he must have really worked with this guy

M. Jacobs - 325 OBP, 313 Career, this guy too

2007 Marlins, 336 OBP

M. Cabrera - 401, 396, don't know where this guy would have been this year without the guidance of Jim Presley

H. Ramirez - 386, 373, this was the year he decided to stop screwing with Hanley and help him

J. Hermida - 369, 334, worked wonders with this guy

J. Willingham - 364, 358, screwed this guy over the year before but decided to put in the work this season

D. Uggla - 326, 337, what happened here? He exceeded his career numbers in 2006 but Presley must have gave him bad advice this season...

A. Almezaga - 324, 307, continued his great work with Alfredo

M. Jacobs - 317, 313, and Mike

M. Olivo - 262, 275, Presley must not have gotten along with Miguel

2008 Marlins, 326 OBP

H. Ramirez - 400, 373, Presley's magic wand continued to work miracles with this dude

J. Willingham - 364, 358, this guy too

D. Uggla - 360, 337, and this guy

L. Gonzalez - 336, 367, he must have skipped over this dude

J. Cantu - 327, 316, crap he's back to it

J. Hermida - 323, 334, oh no he's slipping again

C. Ross - 316, 323, will the slide ever stop?

A. Almezaga - 312, 307, pheww...that was a close won

M. Jacobs - 299 313, Oh no Jim!

2009 Marlins, 340 OBP

H. Ramirez - 410, 373, Working his magic

C. Coghlan - 390, 340, up

D. Uggla - 354, 337, and

J. Baker - 349, 330, down

J. Hermida - 348, 334, this

J. Cantu - 345, 316, lineup

C. Ross - 321, 323, oh no except for these two

E. Bonifacio - 303, 319, bums. Well maybe they just wouldn't take his teachings to heart like the others

Excellent post. Thank you for the effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Posts

    • Yeah, basically this, that Westburg's underlying numbers (EV, barrel %, xwOBA) seem to point at this being pretty real, or at least that there's nothing 'undeserved / lucky' about this hot streak, if it's just that. 
    • The problem with a Cowser/Kjerstad/Stowers/Bradfield outfield roster is there are no right handers to handle LHP. I don't think and completely left handed outfield is the destination for an organization the values versatility.
    • Looks maybe concussion related. 
    • How can you not be romantic about baseball? This seems slightly poetic. I enjoyed reading, and correlated your experience in the stands back to what I watch in Game 1 on MASN.  It was also pretty cool to hear Jim Palmer give you a shout out in Game 2 of the series on Live TV.
    • I am not worried.  It just doesn’t remotely meet the eye test.  He has been great in the field . I can think of at least 3 outstanding plays he has made and not any that I thought he should have gotten but didn’t. Meanwhile Holliday is 3 OAA and I can’t think of an outstanding play and can think of a number I thought he should have made. 
    • Nicely stated Roy. Every since I was 9 years old and saw the O's vs. the Tokyo Giants in Tokyo in 1971, I've been infected with the Orange/Black virus. There is no cure and I don't want one. You and I sat at the lunch table with Jim Palmer at the 1970 World Series Champs reunion, and its still one of my enduring baseball memories. You said I looked like Carlton Fisk! I was at all 3 games in this Angels series, right behind the O's dugout. I got to see all our boys, and just simply love to watch this team play. And in true baseball fashion, the one game on paper we should have dominated (GRod vs. 8+ ERA Channing), we end up down 7-0 and lose. But watching Gunnar's homers, his electric triple, and he made a fantastic play today on a ball that went under Westburg's glove, Adley do Adley things, Cowser, holy crap. Kimbrel v. Trout with bases loaded, bottom of 9th, 2 outs, down by 2? That was fun. Next game Trout bats leadoff and torches a GRod fastball for a homer to the opposite field.  An observation.... If you didn't know anything about the team, and you only watched game 1 batting practice, you'd think Cowser and O'Hearn were the studs of the team. Mountcastle was taking BP with the reserves and he put on a show as well.  Home after 3 straight days watching this O's team, so jealous of the Balt fans in Balt that get to see the team with regularity. It's a special bunch.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...