Trade Ubaldo please

[Nevermore]

The aspect that impressed me about Ubaldo is the following: It's not like he wanted to go out there and be knocked around and lose games. He was struggling. Buck made exactly the correct decision and demoted him to the pen, despite that huge salary. I know that Ubaldo likely wasn't very happy about this, but he did not complain. After his first relief outing since he was a rookie, he was quoted as saying that he would try and do his job out of the bullpen.

For Ubaldo's September spot start that happened because of a rainout had disrupted the rotaion's order, I was at this game, which was the division clincher. Ubaldo came out and was giving up his usual balls, walks, doubles, and runs. 2 runs had scored by the 2nd inning. The boos were raining down and McFarland was warming up. And then something happened. His balls turned into strikes, his walks turned into strikeouts, the doubles turned into fly and ground outs. The rest is history as the Os won the game.

Later on, after the game, Ubaldo discussed to a Sun reporter how Brady Anderson had found some of his mechanics problems, and thus Ubaldo had used his time in the bullpen working to try and correct his problems. Ubaldo had another decent spot start against the Yankees, and wnother successful relief appearance.

Don't get me wrong, Ubaldo has a lot of work ahead of him and I don't have any illusions that he'll suddenly become the next Jim Palmer. But he showed a good work ethic, and there is a good chance that his work ethic will make him valuable as a member of our team for next year.

[DrungoHazewood]

The aspect that impressed me about Ubaldo is the following: It's not like he wanted to go out there and be knocked around and lose games. He was struggling. Buck made exactly the correct decision and demoted him to the pen, despite that huge salary. I know that Ubaldo likely wasn't very happy about this, but he did not complain. After his first relief outing since he was a rookie, he was quoted as saying that he would try and do his job out of the bullpen.

For Ubaldo's September spot start that happened because of a rainout had disrupted the rotaion's order, I was at this game, which was the division clincher. Ubaldo came out and was giving up his usual balls, walks, doubles, and runs. 2 runs had scored by the 2nd inning. The boos were raining down and McFarland was warming up. And then something happened. His balls turned into strikes, his walks turned into strikeouts, the doubles turned into fly and ground outs. The rest is history as the Os won the game.

Later on, after the game, Ubaldo discussed to a Sun reporter how Brady Anderson had found some of his mechanics problems, and thus Ubaldo had used his time in the bullpen working to try and correct his problems. Ubaldo had another decent spot start against the Yankees, and wnother successful relief appearance.

Don't get me wrong, Ubaldo has a lot of work ahead of him and I don't have any illusions that he'll suddenly become the next Jim Palmer. But he showed a good work ethic, and there is a good chance that his work ethic will make him valuable as a member of our team for next year.

I do appreciate the way Ubaldo handled this season. He could have gone to the press and said something like "I have a proven track record and they brought me in here to lead this staff, and I get so little respect that I'm not even allowed to work through a little rough patch." But he didn't say anything. Not when he supposedly fell down, not when he got removed from the rotation, not even when he was left off the playoff roster. A lot of Major Leaguers would have handled the situation much worse.

[Phantom]

People should keep this thread in mind when we're discussing 4 year deals for Nick & Nelson.

Fans seem to clamor for contracts to be signed, then jump ship as soon as they starts to disappoint.

I completely agree, especially on Cruz (and Andrew Miller). When you sign a guy in his mid thirties to a short term contract, and he has a monster year, count yourself fortunate and move on.

Basically, go find the next Cruz instead of taking way more risk and hoping he defies his age.

[Old#5fan]

I'm expecting big things from Ubaldo next season. He did fairly well at the end of the season after they simplified his mechanics. He'll always walk guys, but he sure does strike people out and induce ground balls.

I look for more of the same or even worse. This guy is clearly not the caliber major league pitcher he once was and what they overpaid for. It's not like he was injured and had an excuse for last season.

[Can_of_corn]

I look for more of the same or even worse. This guy is clearly not the caliber major league pitcher he once was and what they overpaid for. It's not like he was injured and had an excuse for last season.

You mean aside from the time he spent on the DL?

[Nevermore]

I look for more of the same or even worse. This guy is clearly not the caliber major league pitcher he once was and what they overpaid for. It's not like he was injured and had an excuse for last season.

Well, then, if he's truly that bad, perhaps it would be better to release him outright and eat up that contract, and then they could at least free up the roster space. :rolleyestf:

Seriously, I see Ubaldo as a reclamation project of sorts. As I said before, it's not like Ubaldo said to himself, "I think I'll pitch lousily this coming season, get knocked around, have the fans boo me, get demoted to mop-up." I've read in (I think that it was in Fangraphs) that his fast-ball velocity got slower; it happens frequently to late 20s/early 30s pitchers, and that's mainly why his 2014 season regressed. He will have to learn to compensate for that loss in velocity. With the work ethic that he displayed in making the improvements that he did, Ubaldo will be capable of pitching better. Perhaps he'll still be overpaid (that's water over the bridge), but he will still be valuable to the team in some role.

[Can_of_corn]

I think his lack of fastball command had more to do with his troubles then his velocity.

[Can_of_corn]

Perhaps increased velocity gives a pitcher more confidence not to nibble as much.

No way to know for sure but it looked to me that he was missing, sometimes by a lot, more then he was nibbling.

(As an O's fan I have seen a lot of nibbling over the years)

[Can_of_corn]

I guess. Seemed to me that he threw a two seamer with tons of run on it that missed by a lot, like you say. Just thinking that with more velocity he might go to a 4 seamer more often and not try to go with so much movement.

That is possible, but given the overall trend in baseball toward the two seamer and the O's infield defense and home park, I think other factors were influencing his use of the two seamer.

[weams]

I look for more of the same or even worse. This guy is clearly not the caliber major league pitcher he once was and what they overpaid for. It's not like he was injured and had an excuse for last season.

He was ok. His ERA was not as bad as some other big names. I think he comes back fine.

[tntoriole]

No way to know for sure but it looked to me that he was missing, sometimes by a lot, more then he was nibbling.

(As an O's fan I have seen a lot of nibbling over the years)

Nibbling implies throwing it outside the zone carefully and purposefully.

I think Ubaldo at points had no idea where the ball was going to go due to his mechanics being so out of whack. He wasn't nibbling, he just had no command of his pitches whatsoever.

[brianod]

He was nibbling because he was throwing 89 early in the year. You make a mistake at 89, it goes far. I was very encouraged to see 95 in his last few starts and would not sell low

[Nevermore]

I think his lack of fastball command had more to do with his troubles then his velocity.

He's had that problem as well. Even a few years ago, when he threw his no-hitter (with Colorado), he had a high walk rate. But as long as he had his velocity, he did ok. This year, his velocity had gone down. That combined with lack of command ended up with this season going south. It's quite possible that the combination of poor command plus lessening velocity would affect his performance even more

It's a good thing that Buck shipped him off to the pen, so that he could truly see how badly things were going for him, and he could get some time to get some good coaching. Instead of whining and complaining, he worked hard to begin to turn some of his problems around. No doubt, he still has a way to go. But I believe that, with his work ethic, he'll improve.

[weams]

He's had that problem as well. Even a few years ago, when he threw his no-hitter (with Colorado), he had a high walk rate. But as long as he had his velocity, he did ok. This year, his velocity had gone down. That combined with lack of command ended up with this season going south. It's quite possible that the combination of poor command plus lessening velocity would affect his performance even more

It's a good thing that Buck shipped him off to the pen, so that he could truly see how badly things were going for him, and he could get some time to get some good coaching. Instead of whining and complaining, he worked hard to begin to turn some of his problems around. No doubt, he still has a way to go. But I believe that, with his work ethic, he'll improve.

And when he was back, his velocity was up. In fact, way up compared to his velocity in Cleveland which got him his 50 million dollar deal from us.

[Can_of_corn]

And when he was back, his velocity was up. In fact, way up compared to his velocity in Cleveland which got him his 50 million dollar deal from us.

It was way up in the pen, how much up was it in the start?