TSN's Deveney's Take on Roberts-Cubs

[Birds08]

My source told me, if Roberts isnt traded in the next three weeks, than Roberts will likely be dealt at the deadline.

He still thinking Cubs?

[Peace21]

He still thinking Cubs?

Very much so.

[skiba7]

Very much so.

Is he thinking before the season, or at the deadline?

[Time2Win]

My source told me, if Roberts isnt traded in the next three weeks, than Roberts will likely be dealt at the deadline.

I have heard that the Cubs would like to get him, but feel it is almost time to move on, looking in another direction.

[Peace21]

Is he thinking before the season, or at the deadline?

Likely before season

[skiba7]

I have heard that the Cubs would like to get him, but feel it is almost time to move on, looking in another direction.

Where did you hear that?

[JTrea81]

My source told me, if Roberts isnt traded in the next three weeks, than Roberts will likely be dealt at the deadline.

My guess is he'll be dealt before position players have to report to camp.

[Number5]

Well your heart must have been a bit misleading then since the Reds were in the old NL West and the Cubs were in the East. The Cubs struggled with the Pirates, Mets and Cardinals back then. The Reds rival was the Dodgers.

While Cardenal played for the Cubbies my recollection is that he came somewhat later and would have overlapped Billy Williams very little in playing for the Cubs. Kessinger was often the leadoff man back in the day with Beckert second, Wiliiams batted 3rd.

But what do I know.

I was in school from fall '71 thru '75. Got married and stayed in Chicago 1 more year before we moved east. Cardenal was definitely there. Perhaps not the entire time, but he was there. And he led off. I haven't looked it up because I watched him. Feel free to look it up. The Big Red Machine was the team to beat in the National League at that time. I was not there for the majority of Billy Williams career, nor did I claim to be. His '72 season was awesome. He had the NL iron man record back then. Garvey broke it as I recall. Billy was traded to Oakland in '75 I believe. But feel free to nit-pick the minutia all you want. As to your final question, I have no idea.

[redwhitenblue]

My source told me, if Roberts isnt traded in the next three weeks, than Roberts will likely be dealt at the deadline.

Don't go out on a limb too much Peace

[Peace21]

Don't go out on a limb too much Peace

And why is that?

[Bloopandablast]

I was in school from fall '71 thru '75. Got married and stayed in Chicago 1 more year before we moved east. Cardenal was definitely there. Perhaps not the entire time, but he was there. And he led off. I haven't looked it up because I watched him. Feel free to look it up. The Big Red Machine was the team to beat in the National League at that time. I was not there for the majority of Billy Williams career, nor did I claim to be. His '72 season was awesome. He had the NL iron man record back then. Garvey broke it as I recall. Billy was traded to Oakland in '75 I believe. But feel free to nit-pick the minutia all you want. As to your final question, I have no idea.

Jose often batted 5th in his stay in Chi town, but in fairness he did move around the order. Kessinger was lead off often. Rick Monday later batted there a good part of the time. I did not find the splits like you can for todays games, but Kessinger did lead the team in Plate Appearances in 72 and it would not have been from the 2 hole cause that is where Beckert batted.

Cubs never got stuck behind the Reds because they were not in the playoffs until 84.

[Hank Scorpio]

Chicago fans are feeling neglected, I think.

[Number5]

Bloop, what the heck, man? Cardenal was there and he batted lead-off. I don't know if he was there in 1972 or if he led off in 1972, nor do I care. He was there and led off for some of the period between 1971 and 1976. Divisional play started in 1969 and was not really the focus of fans' thoughts back then. The Reds were the team to beat in the National League and were fun to watch. The Cubs had some good ball clubs in that period. Billy Williams was there and was one helluva hitter. Johnny Bench won the MVP over Billy at least once, and I'm pretty sure that it was in 1972. Billy won a different Player of the Year Award as I recall, but not the MVP. Bleacher seats were a buck. Murphy's Bar was right outside the exit from the Right Field Bleachers and I spent several hours there after the games. All games were day games. The el train back to Evanston was around the corner and down the street. Jack Brickhouse announced the games on channel 9. "Hey, hey!" If I could remember my old phone number, I'd tell you. As I said before, I'm married. I really don't need someone to come behind me and pick at every word I say with nuisance corrections. I already have someone that does that very well. Thank you.

[Roll Tide]

If the Cubs trade us Pie, he'd likely be the only Cubs player in the deal.

I'd rather have the package of Gallagher, Veal, Murton and Cedeno.

I agree with you here...I dont think its close & I wouldn't do it for Pie & Gallagher. It doesn't fill any of our holes.

The problem I see here from a objective point or view. Dave & Rob seem to be determining Roberts value based on the upgrade between him & Derosa. As opposed to the difference of upgrade between Theriot & Greene.

Hardly a fair way to determine Roberts trade value. If in fact the Cubs did what these guys propose. Roberts will end up elsewhere or Still be on the Orioles on OD.

Again just for the record .... I am not bashing anyone & this is just my opinion from reading the thread.

[davearm]

Well, Dave, we will just have to agree to disagree. To me, batting Soriano first is a criminal waste of his slugging and changes him from a power middle-of-the-order hitter with the bonus of speed to a mediocre lead-off man that will hit you a bunch of solo home runs. I have read and understood what you have said. I simply disagree, and I am sure that you have read, understood, and disagree with what I have said. I stand corrected if Soriano hit lead-off most of 2006 for Washington. I seem to remember him hitting 3-4-5 for them, but will take what you have said as accurate.

Hey all I know is that the theory you're espousing here has already been tried, by the Rangers.

Just like you, they didn't see Soriano as a leadoff hitter, but rather as a middle-of-the-order slugger.

So they batted him 3rd for the lion's share of his first season there, and 5th for the lion's share of his second season there.

What resulted were Soriano's worst two years since his rookie season.

Then Washington switched him back to the leadoff spot, and his numbers jumped right back to their Yankee levels, and they stayed there in '07.

So you'll understand why I (and the Cubs) would rather not abandon that which has repeatedly shown to work, in favor of that which has repeatedly shown not to work.

If we don't learn from history, we're doomed to repeat it, and all that.